Abolishing management

** COMMENTS ON THIS POSTING HAVE BEEN PAUSED AND ARE NOT BEING PUT THROUGH. The aim was to destimulate, key out and resolve issues for people, but instead this thread has gone off the rails in many directions and has acted as an invitation for people to post false information that makes the water even muddier. So we are reviewing how to better achieve the outcome we are after, and after Christmas you will hear more on this. Signed – MS2 crew 

By Lana M.

Though many parishioners would be unaware of changes in Scientology Management, there will be staff members at all echelons that will have noticed significant changes in management functions, priorities and activities in the last 20 years. We are not just talking about the Ideal Org Program, or the Golden Age of Tech (I or II), but about actual functions and roles.

LRH ED 339R is a vital issue that lays out key management functions (hats) that LRH wore when he was in charge of Scientology worldwide. In this issue he lays out the functions that are vital to expansion in an org.


“What does it take to make an org run?

“1. ESTABLISHMENT. This also includes legal and defence, not just more hatted staff. This is Div 7 and HCO. And staff correction and enhancement in Qual.

“2. BOOKS, CASSETTES. This is Div 2 and many other outletsincluding mail order.

“3. MARKETING. This is Div 7, Div 2, anything that gets books, cassettes services and products known to and in public and Scn field hands.

“4. AN ACTIVE FIELD. This is Div 6, field auditors, missions, WISE, and any other activity outside the org including the furthest reaches of possible publics.

“5. AN INFLUX OF PUBLIC. This is Div 6 in all its divisions  and activities.

“6. GROSS INCOME. Without money and an exchange with the society, you cannot operate at all. This includes the reges in Div 2, Div 6. It includes a continual keep up and work of Central Files and Addresso. It includes the Treasury Div–Div 3. And it is overseen by the FBO NW.

“7. SERVICES. This means any and all services the org offers, major and minor. Without good and meaningful services to exchange, an org cannot long exist. Training and Processing have similar importance: you and the world need auditors who are trained. A processed person cannot go all the way without being trained.

“8. QUALITY. Services anywhere in an org or field have to be kept up to high quality; otherwise you lose ground. And the quality of executive and staff member performance must be enhanced for expansion to occur. This is Div 5.

“9. CALL IN. People must be called in for services fully or partially paid for, must be scheduled, recovered when fallen off lines and put into the pc chair or course rooms. This, in orgs, is the tech services department.

“10. FILMS. For both training and public, films, properly  used, can play a vital role. This is a visual communications  age.

“11. COORDINATION. An org or management body with all its different functions, with all its executives with different spheres of interest, as per the recent HCO PL 1 Jul 82

“MANAGEMENT COORDINATION, must be smoothly coordinated. If not they impede one another. Coordination comes from the CO or ED and the Executive and Advisory Councils and in Divisional and staff meetings.

“The above actions are VITAL FUNCTIONS of an org. (Actually they are vital functions in any service organization if it is to persist.)

“At this moment there is a SENIOR EXEC STRATA COMMITTEE at Flag and it has an executive in charge of each one of those functions.”  LRH, LRH ED 339R INT

As detailed by LRH, each of the above functions were covered by a Scientology executive, and they were all big names and experts in their field and function. Headed by ED International, and also including an Evaluator Corps of experts trained in the Data Series, the International Executive Strata was to wear LRH’s hat of management for International Scientology.

Through the provision of simple 339R programs that could be used by orgs as a tool to get in functions at ground level, the Int Executive Strata was to be an open line to orgs, providing advice, assistance and accurate evaluations to help orgs expand and achieve their purpose.

But where are they?

Where is ED International? Where are the Exec Ints? Where are the 339R programs? Where is the Universe Corps that is promised in the same ED?

Starting in the mid-1990’s, this vital international management structure was cross-ordered, musical chaired, suspended, and then finally dissolved, by David Miscavige, the Chairman of the Board RTC. Now we can argue if this was a premeditated and well organised campaign, or simply the result of a bumbling idiot who could not manage his way out of paper bag or establish anything Scientological using standard policy and tech. But regardless, the result has been the same. With the removal of these executives and the cross order of LRH’s Birthday Game program by the “Ideal Org”  strategy, key functions that are vital to expansion at ground level have evaporated.

An org cannot be built from broken straws — and it cannot be build with brick and mortar.

A Scientology org requires key functions to be performed so that it can service the field and achieve its valuable final products (VFPs). This cannot be short cut with shiny AV systems that spurt out glowing successes to new people, or by demanding that parishioners spend their hard won money on funding expensive buildings instead of  becoming competent auditors.

It is now 2014 — a full 20 years since the unmock of the Exec Strata.

The ‘management’ of Scientology organisations around the world is now micromanaged by alternate channels and Sea Org missions established by Miscavige himself. The Senior Danger condition has been applied for years (bypassing those responsible) and statistics will continue to go down and down till the condition of Non-Existence is achieved.

Having worked at the Int base and working in RTC in the mid-1990’s, I can testify that every executive that was worth his salt was overtly attacked, undermined, invalidated, introverted and stopped, one by one, by Miscavige.  After an initial attack on specific individuals, the focus went onto the entire management structure, which was eventually imprisoned in “The Hole”, and each Int Executive was declared a Suppressive Person by Miscavige and removed from the lines. The only ones that are active on ‘management’ lines now, are those that have gotten back into favour by propitiation (and doing his bidding to others), and these lines are micro-managed by Dave personally.

From the view of a group engram — this has been a significant one on a chain of many, so if you have information/knowledge regarding this, or regarding the impact of this at org/Flag levels, please do add them below. This blog posting will become a key archive of information for all who need to know what occurred to Int Management.

So, what can we do now?

Well for starters, we can take LRH ED 339R Int, and start to apply it in local delivery in the field. Whether you are a field auditor, a supervisor, or a group, these key functions must be expressed on the org board and need to be performed.  Providing high quality service and delivering what has been promised, is the backbone to what LRH’s Scientology is actually about.

Please take the time to reread the full LRH ED again, in a new unit of time, and work out how you can follow LRH’s instructions.

You can find the full bulletin here, and by clicking on LRHED’s28.doc.

182 Comments On “Abolishing management”

  1. Lana,

    My beef with former Int Execs is that they fixate on Miscavige.

    Marty and Mike of good examples of this Miscavige Fixation. As if every action taken by the organization was taken solely and exclusively by Miscavige.

    Personally I don’t buy that.

    My question is why did these trained execs follow his obviously off line illegal and destructive orders without querying them according to the policies Orders; Query Of, Orders Illegal and Cross How to Stay Out of Trouble or at the very least ask for a Comm Ev per the Policy Injustice before meekly going to the hole?

    As far as I’m concerned there are plenty of “Nine Foot Fences” any of these execs who are now allegedly in “the hole” could have used which exist in Policy to remove him from his position as “Chairman of the Board of RTC”. For that matter why didn’t any of the trustees of CST step in to stop this inner-org massacre of senior execs?

    From what I’ve read and studied of Policy and legal instruments relating to Scientology’s corporate structure RTC and therefore Miscavige has no power to make management decisions thus how could he phase 1 or use the Senior Danger Formula legally?

    RTC only has the power to license organizations and defend the Trade and Service Marks of Dn and Scn according to its incorporating documents.

    As far as I’m concerned Lana. We are late on the chain.

    The current management of Scientology was on the path to self destruction long before Miscavige came along to seal them in his version of the The Cask of Amontillado that started in the early ’80’s with the Mission Conference and the so called “Financial Dictatorship” which was a period of so many irregularities in finance that it would have even made Herbie Parkhouse blush.

    In my opinion if we keep saying Dave did this and Dave did that aside from assigning him power as blame we will go in the same direction that these other blogs have gone.

    Take the example of “Special Project” or “Mission all Clear” illegally run out of ASI a mutual out ruds society for sure and from what I know was nothing but a den of thieves selling fraudulently signed properties and soft core porn.

    As as I can see there was a lot of dereliction of duty and mopery and dopey going on prior to this. For instance I know for a fact that Int Management was demanding more than what is required per AC1 back in the late ’80’s and that they along with Miscavige were lining there pockets with fat bonuses.

    My view is that many execs walked their way to the hole as a way of withholding themselves from committing further overts. Overts that Miscavige probably wouldn’t read on being a L1 R/Ser (I mean he not only considered committing overts against Mary Sue a terminal on list 1 but actually committed them) for sure.

    In an environment of total out ethics, tech (which included gang bang “sec checks” and so called “seances”) one could see how the admin would go out Miscavige or no Miscavige eventually in my view.

    • Lana M.

      I do hear you, and I agree this is all late on the chain — but it was unquestionably an engram for all those involved, and its ramifications were felt down to org and parishioner level across the planet.
      I worked at the Int base for 13 years and it was the most enturbulated and fearful group of people I have had the misfortune to work with. The only way that can come about is through overts/withholds/false data and PTSness. And we had all of that. We also had heavy case restimulation, no auditing happening and little sleep.

      Why does Miscavige have the power?

      Because we (myself included) let him have it, and granted him it. Why does he still have it? Because no one has effectively told him NO! and made him stand down. He now lives the life of a paranoid, hiding behind security guards, large fences and bullet-proof glass, and he will go out of his way to not have to encounter anyone who actually does have the TRs and presence and integrity to say NO!

      There are plenty of execs and staff at the Int base (or formerly at the Int base) who were complicit and allowed things to get to where they are. There are mutual out-ruds and particularly for key people like Marc Yager, Guillaume Leserve, Ray Mithoff, Norman Starkey, and co. they have dug a ditch and now find it very very hard to get out.

      It is impossible to come to cause by claiming to be a victim. Blame does not resolve anything.

      But spotting the exact source of orders (regardless of who enforced them and carried them out) does blow charge, and also gives people a chance to get unstuck from the ickiness of the whole thing.

      There are SPs (plural) — not just one big ‘powerful’ DM, who have played key roles in this, and you are right, there was a lot of dereliction of duty and moperty and dopey going on prior to all of this.

      No question.

  2. As a matter of history, it doesn’t matter what Miscavige’s motivation was. That part of history might be useful in an article about Miscavige (his motivations). It is important to identify who unmocked the Exec Strata. Question: was he the only one responsible, or were there others? Did any other participants act upon his bidding?

    It might be eventually of interest who was in charge of each sector.

    Another point– is there any way to establish the date more precisely (more precisely than “mid-1990s”)? In addition, can we say when the final executive was eliminated? In other words, over a span of X years/months these personnel were all eliminated.

    LRH mentions that this committee was established at “Flag”. Is LRH speaking literally or figuratively? When my wife got to meet Guilliaume LeSevre in the mid-80s, it was not in Clearwater, where “Flag” is.

    • Lana M.

      To be absolutely clear in answering your question, Paul, about who unmocked Exec Strata, there was only one person issuing the orders, and that was Miscavige.

      I was posted in RTC as the Dir Org Policing, and Miscavige was at Flag for many months, while a large number of RTC staff were on mission in INCOMM. It was March 1995 and orders came from DM to find the SPs at Int who were refusing to make Saint Hill size orgs. I, and Jesse Radstrom (former RTC) were sent into Int daily to “find crimes” and though we unearthed some people who were defeatist and spreading Black PR, there was no joy in finding the horrific crimes that DM was demanding we find.

      On his return from Flag in late 1995, Marty returned to the base, and with Bitty Miscavige as the IG, things really heated up. Golden Age of Tech (I) was being released and on the heels of that was the formulation of an “Int Base Admin Scale” and the New Era Of Management. For the entirety of 1996 and most of 1997, all of the Int Executives were ordered to remain in the CMO Int conference room to draft and propose these issues. With Guillaume or Ronnie Miscavige typing and all the other execs (Exec Ints and the WDC Members) seated there, they would draft an issue, and then DM would come down from the Villas and tell them it was crap, or order it reworked, or lose his temper and throw people around and punch. They would be ordered to not leave the room till it was redone, and myself and Jesse would be left “on guard” so to speak, to see that these execs did nothing but that action.

      There was no cramming, no word clearing, no study. And there was no routine daily actions or weekly actions (such as stat analysis, evaluations, etc). All of these actions were cancelled and the Int execs were essentially cross ordered off their posts and kept in this conference room. I can tell you from my personal view at the time, as an RTC staff member, I was torn, as I did not understand what was so bad with what was being proposed, and I could perceive the tension, stress and final despair of these executives as they endured day after day, week after week, and then month after month of the same treatment.

      And as things heated up, more and more RTC staff were called into these meetings, and soon the entire room was filled, not even standing room, which made the whole thing even more oppressive, heavy and entheta. Any executive who would dare to disagree or refuse or walk out, was immediately investigated and was off post into extensive “interviews”, generally by Marty. An example of this was my former husband, Mitch, who was WDC WISE at the time and was said to have “looked at DM funny” and was then whipped off for an entire day on the meter. He was removed from post, busted to Gold Estates (he ended up in Electrical) and he was restricted to the base (meaning he was not permitted to go home at night and had to sleep in trailers in side section of the property) for over one year.

      Execs either endured the attacks and invalidation and cross order, or they were off post and out of there.

      By 1998 there was an ever increasing number of busted executives, and more and more of CMO Int and Exec Strata were hauled in to be part of a similar process.
      An incident I remember in 1998 was regarding 339R programs. Greg Hughes was Gross Income Exec Int (GIEI) at that time, and COB had issued him an order to write a 339R program to get his function performed in org Div 2’s and Div 6’s. The program that he submitted for approval (why the hell was Miscavige even on the approval line for a 339R program???) was rejected. As a result, all of the Int Execs were hauled in and made to sit, for weeks (I kid you not), as DM went through the program, over and over, rejecting it, and then Greg was ordered to write a program to floss your teeth (Greg was a former dentist), and this wenst through more and more rejects. Finally, the entirety of the Int Management Execs (those remaining on post) were ordered to write this program for him (how to floss your teeth).

      It goes without saying that the program was never approved — and of course never issued. Through out this time however, there was absolutely no management activities occurring, and though we could say that there were some people on post, they were not actually performing the functions of their posts.

      Things got even hotter still, and that was the beginnings of the Hole. The actual bars went on the windows in 2002 or 2003, but the CMOI and Exec Strata staff and execs had been buried in that place already for years, not permitted to do their jobs, and then they were all declared SPs and restricted to the base enmasse, not allowed to go to the dining room and had to be escorted to showers by guards.

      The person that was issuing the orders was DM. The persons following his orders was pretty much anyone and everyone who wanted to remain on a post, not get offloaded, not be separated from their family, not become one of his targets. That included me — and I am not proud of my involvement in any of this. I can justify it, but that does not resolve it unless I take responsibility for my own part in it. Over that same time period I was busted from post 4 times, and I dug many ditches (literally). I was told by DM I was the most entheta person on his lines and I can now state proudly that most of what I submitted to him in terms of reports, evals and investigations were disapproved — which means in my view, that I was probably not too far off the mark on most of them. For me personally, I was enturbulated beyond anything I had experienced, and I could not spot the source of the entheta (and I certainly looked). It was not until I got exterior to the whole situation that I realised that I had been so close in, I could not see the obvious.

      In terms of your other question Paul, about Flag’s location. It was originally at Clearwater in 1975/1976. The Int base was formed in the late 70’s and Gold was set up, and CMO Int and WDC were created, and they were set up at the Int Base just after that. The Flag Bureaux was then moved to LA (middle management) – so we ended up with each of the echelons.

  3. Thanks for the clarification. I’ve met Greg Hughes. Jim Vannier (who was ED WISE LA when I worked there) told me at the time that Greg was WDC WISE. This was probably in 1986, before he became GIEI. Jim referred to him humorously as “the Great White Doctor”. Greg was also, I believe, the founder or one of the founders of Sterling Management, which later became WISE Glendale. I knew he was a dentist originally.


    • Lana M.

      Good man Greg. No longer in the Sea Org, as his wife Debbie had a physical medical situation and they were offloaded about 6 years ago or so. I worked under Greg (when he was WDC WISE) in 1989 – 1991 and he was a sane, intelligent and humorous guy.

      Will always have a soft spot for him and hope he and Debbie (and kids) are happy and well.

  4. Lana and Paul,

    “In terms of your other question Paul, about Flag’s location. It was originally at Clearwater in 1975/1976. The Int base was formed in the late 70’s and Gold was set up, and CMO Int and WDC were created, and they were set up at the Int Base just after that. The Flag Bureaux was then moved to LA (middle management) – so we ended up with each of the echelons.”

    It used to be called the Flag Command Bureau or FCB when it moved to LA and worked with InCom which was in the annex on the corner Fountain on what was then North Berendo NKA LRH Way. In the early days while Ron was still in La Quinta near Palm Springs which was known as Winter HQ that was also the location of Over the Rainbow the Media Org FKA Photo Shoot Org which later became Golden Era Productions.

    This is where Ron did the majority of the Tech Films with the exception of the Secret of Flag Results which was filmed at Flag which included The Case He Couldn’t Crack and the famous TRs Film featuring Dan Koon as Joe Howard plus one of the first Trustees of CST Lyman Spurlock.

    The irony is that Miscavige makes a big deal of working with Ron at Over The Rainbow and being called Misc and all that but the fact is that traditionally back in the days of the Apollo when it was called the Photo Shoot Org it consisted of Sea Org Members who were either busted off post or couldn’t hold a post in the Sea Org and who had been turned over to the Ol’man who seemed to be only one who could do anything with this bunch of losers 😉

    But I digress….

    What became known as the Int Base was originally known as Summer HQ and was supposed to be Ron’s summer home yet about the time the base was being established the excrement had hit the fan with the US (in) Justice Department and indictments were handed out for the fun and games connected to the rogue operation known as GO 1361. Not only that but a Civil Suit had been filed by Flynn and Assoc. on behalf of Ron’s estranged son L Ron Hubbard Jr. NKA Ron DeWolf. At which point Ron decided that “discretion is the better part of valor” and moved his base of operations to a place just outside of Creston slightly east of San Luis Obispo in place known as Happy Valley.

    Thus the base in La Quinta was closed and with the exception of a few trusted aids and security personal was moved to Hemet including Ron’s “trusted friend” David Miscavige (obviously he didn’t seem to trust him enough to bring him to Creston with him but anyway.) who was assigned probably by Pat Broeker to take care of Ron’s personal affairs through the newly formed Author’s Services International in a “Special Project” which later became known as “Mission All Clear” which was supposed to handle the Ol’man’s personal legal liabilities exclusively but ended up poaching on the GO’s turf who involved in what was known as Mission Corporate Category Sort Out.

    Of course when the GO began to assert their position former ED Int Bill Franks who recently admitted to being a CI for the FBI claimed that they were a bunch of mutineers seeking to take control of the Church and were dealt with severely by CMOI using the basically same tactics as the FBI.

    While Franks and the gang were in England convincing Jane Kember to step down as the Guardian. Miscavige and his gang in the US were convincing Mary Sue to step down as the Controller. Basically it was a successful power push which created a vacuum that was based on the *lie* that Ron wanted them both to resign.

    Now with the GO basically out of the way. It was now easy for them to take over the Franchise network and turn them into actual “Missions” of the Church (before then they were known as “Missions” by name only but were operated as separate Franchises) by threat.

    Much has been said about the Mission Conference already so I’ll avoid redundancy here and only add the obvious reason that the Sea Org wanted full control of the Network and that was because Missions or Franchises produced more income than all the Orgs combined and they obviously wanted it which is probably why they sent Wendell Reynolds known then as “Financial Dictator” to audit these Franchises at a whopping 5000 bucks a day.

    I mean not even the Tax Cruds at the Infernal Ravening Service charge for the dubious “privilege” of being audited.

    Flush with the cash they had pilfered at the Mission the Int Base went on a massive Disney Land like building project which included a massive three masted ship in the middle of a water trap and other goodies that made some us more cynical types refer to the place as the “Magic Kingdom”.

    Anyway I don’t know exactly how but this bunch of criminals wearing SO uniforms managed to convince the Ol’man that they were a “Clean Team” and that they had “thrown the rascals out” when in fact the “rascals” were in charge.

    Maybe it was that despite the take over by this SO Junta or Criminal Conspiracy there were good guys both in the Sea Org and out who were getting Book 1 accepted by the public and running Seminars on Book 1 auditing and Org stats were actually going up after being in the “doldrums”. That and the fact that the RED entitled The Solution to Inflation on price increases had been canceled and prices were dropped to a more affordable level.

    There may have been other factors like Service Completion Awards and Scholarships as well. But the fact is that in many sectors of Scientology the stats were actually going up. In my opinion no thanks to that den of thieves over at Int Base who didn’t do anything other than take credit in many cases.

    A good issue to read in regard to all this is one that Ron recommended to me when I asked him what are we going to do when he was no longer at the helm.

    Which I’m now sharing with you.

    And that is Essay on Management.

    If you all don’t have a copy I’ll be happy to provide a copy.


    • Lana M.

      RV, To correct you on one point, Happy Valley was a different location to Creston, and was about 20km from the Int Base in Hemet, located at the back of a local Indian reservation. This was a remote property where the former Int base cadet org was established, and then later the Rehabilitation Project Force (and various off-loadees) were kept for months or years. It was sold a few years back, I am told.

      • I stand corrected on that point.

        I should have written “the Ranch”. Actually Happy Valley was in the general vicinity.

        • Lana M.

          “The Ranch”, at Creston, was up near San Luis Obispo.

          Happy Valley, was about 20km from the Int base, in Hemet/San Jacinto, at least a few hours drive away from Creston. It was routinely called the “Int Ranch”, as the PAC Cadet org in the a different location again (in the San Bernadino Mountains, a few hours out of LA) was called the “PAC Ranch”.

          So with all these “Ranches” it is easy to see why there is probably some confusion regarding the names and locations.

          • Right I forgot about the Cadet Ranch which was run by an Ex Marine Corp Sargent. Can’t remember the guy’s name but if anyone has seen the movie Full Metal Jacket it’ll give you an idea what he was like 😉

    • Lana M.

      All readers can find a copy of Essay on Management at this link, on page 133.

    • Robin:

      Point of clarification here. What’s the difference between a “franchise” mission and a mission as you describe it after 1982? Early on, these were called “franchises” by LRH, just as “regular” orgs were called “Central Orgs”. The “central” moniker was eventually dropped in favor of referring to the “class” of an org. Similarly the “franchise” activities were referred to as “missions”. How did their status change?

      And while we’re on the subject, I think I must also have a mis-U on “outer orgs”. My definition has always been orgs which had sent trainees or PCs to upper level orgs. From the perspective of the upper level orgs, the originating orgs would be “outer orgs”. Is my definition incorrect?

      • Point of clarification here. What’s the difference between a “franchise” mission and a mission as you describe it after 1982? Early on, these were called “franchises” by LRH, just as “regular” orgs were called “Central Orgs”. The “central” moniker was eventually dropped in favor of referring to the “class” of an org. Similarly the “franchise” activities were referred to as “missions”. How did their status change?

        Hi Paul,

        To answer your question Mission prior to being hijacked by SMI actually *operated* as Franchises which per my Oxford American means:

        franchise |ˈfranˌCHīz|
        1 an authorization granted by a government or company to an individual or group enabling them to carry out specified commercial activities, e.g., providing a broadcasting service or acting as an agent for a company’s products.
        • a business or service given a franchise to operate.
        • a general title or concept used for creating or marketing a series of products, typically films or television shows: the Harry Potter franchise.
        • (chiefly in North America) an ownership structure in professional sports in which a league is limited to a fixed number of teams.
        • N. Amer. an authorization given by a league to own a sports team.
        • N. Amer. informal a professional sports team.
        • (also franchise player)N. Amer. informal a star player on a team.
        2 (usu. the franchise) the right to vote.
        • the rights of citizenship.
        verb [ with obj. ]
        grant a franchise to (an individual or group).
        • grant a franchise for the sale of (goods) or the operation of (a service): all the catering was franchised out.

        But during the early seventies they were *called* “Missions” meaning:

        mission |ˈmiSHən|
        1 an important assignment carried out for political, religious, or commercial purposes, typically involving travel: a trade mission to Mexico.
        • [ treated as sing. or pl. ] a group of people sent on a mission: by then, the mission had journeyed more than 3,500 miles.
        • [ in sing. ] an organization or institution involved in a long-term assignment in a foreign country: the head of the West German mission.
        • an operation carried out by military aircraft: he was shot down on a supply mission.
        • an expedition into space.
        2 the vocation or calling of a religious organization, especially a Christian one, to go out into the world and spread its faith: the Christian mission | Gandhi’s attitude to mission and conversion.
        • a building or group of buildings used by a Christian mission.
        3 a strongly felt aim, ambition, or calling: his main mission in life has been to cut unemployment.
        ORIGIN mid 16th cent. (denoting the sending of the Holy Spirit into the world): from Latin missio(n-), from mittere ‘send.’

        I’m sure you can find the applicable definitions for both.

        The difference is slight but there is a difference. The one an action originated by the individual Field Auditor who signs a Franchise Charter and the second one is an action that by the above definitions is one originated by the Church and where the Church has complete control over its mission.

        See the slight difference?

        Now I wouldn’t bother checking the newer OEC Vol 6 but go to the Original Vol 6 where you will find the following policy among others:

        HCO POLICY LETTER OF 2 JANUARY 1965 Remimeo Franclii~
        The Franchise Programme has been a part of the broad, public dissemination of Scientology for a long time now, almost six years.
        The purpose of this programme is to build up a really fine group of professional auditors practicing and disseminating Scientology in the field, professional auditors who could help carry out the goals, aims, and ideals of Scientology and who could in the practical aspects of training, processing, and like activities, help other people to higher levels of awareness and beingness.
        To accomplish this purpose we had to ensure to the Franchise Holder and to the general public that they would get the very best data and technical information with which to succeed, the dissemination and help of Scientology relying wholly on technical working in the hands of those who apply it, not just those who are closely supervised in it’s application, but in everyone’s hands.
        So we had to provide the service of seeing that this technical information was relayed as fast as possible each week on established communication lines; that there was someone to answer and handle the natural queries that result from new technical information; that the general public be advised throughout our various magazines that these Franchise Holders were the elite corps from whom the best technical could be expected in the field; and that we could do everything possible to promote the activities of the Franchise Holder through advertising, technical information, and administrative advice.
        In return for such information and services, we ask that ten percent of the weekly gross income of the Franchise Holder be sent, along with a weekly report, to help defray the expenses involved, to help pay for the advertising and to help pay for the research involved in the development of new technology.
        Thus a two-way flow is maintained with affinity, reality, and communication.
        New promotion and a new technical bridge have been originated to increase even further the effectiveness and reach of our Franchise Holders. This new promotion and new bridge, via the training and processing levels, will bring about more success and more wins and more people.
        To cope with this forward reach and progress, we would like to ensure that those who are now Franchise Holders will continue to be Franchise Holders in the future and to ensure that the members of Franchise Holders are increased.
        First, let’s review the definition of a Franchise Holder: A professional auditor, with a classification to Level III or over, who practices Scientology full or part time for remuneration, who conducts processing and training privately or to groups, whose understanding and experience of Scientology is sufficiently broad for him to be publicized to others as a stable terminal, who has signed a Franchise Agreement, who receives Bulletins, Policy Letters, advice, advertising, technical information, services and administrative data from HCO WW, and who, in return for same, maintains
        regularly a weekly report and a weekly payment of ten percent of his gross income to HCO WW.
        Contained in this definition are all the agreements which create the reality of the communication flows and which help to maintain affinity in common purpose and understanding.
        The administrative actions which we engage upon to maintain the Franchise programme are much more complicated and time consuming than the fifteen or thirty minutes (and even less, in the case of some very efficient Franchise Holders) required to write out a supplied report form and check (cheque), but this difference is made up in the hours and time devoted to handling, processing, and training people by the Franchise Holder.
        We would like to see in the future more Franchise Holders, and Franchise Holders so busy and successful that they need to hire someone to file their report to HCO WW, to enroll all the people, to answer the’ telephone, and to keep that over-full appointment book.
        The future of the Franchise Programme is bright. Let’s keep it that way by maintaining the agreements upon which it is founded and by gathering together new members with the same aims and goals.
        L. RON HUBBARD
        LRH:lb.cden Copyright Q 1965 for L. Ron Hubbard ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
        [Modified by HCO P/L 20 April 1968, Franchise, page M.]

        It seems like Mike like RTRC seems to think that by simply omitting a policy or HCOB from the volumes like the above policy or say 1 March 1966 for example that it is therefore “canceled”.

        Probably some kind of “out of sight out of mind” think which I’ve noticed seems to be prevalent in the Orgs these days.

  5. Jim Logan

    Can you elaborate on Bill Franks admitting to being a Confidential Informant for the FBI? Bill in latter years has gotten pretty colorful about things let us say. You know, what could be termed “dub in”, adding all sorts of wonderful this and that. So, I’d like to see what he says now about his relationship with the gov, and when this was – pre or post his imbroglio with DM.

    • He admitted it on Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now program on KPFK probably around the time Kate FKA Bert AKA Albert Bornstein was promoting his/her book Queer and Present Danger.

      I’ll see if I can find it in their archives.

      Personally I don’t think the fact that Bill was a paranoid looney tune would disqualify him from being a CI and in fact would more likely be considered a qualification.

      Also from what I understand he was removed by CO CMOI John Nelson and replaced by Kerry Gleason and that Miscavige had nothing to do with it.

      Jim I don’t understand why you can’t accept the fact that the organization had been infiltrated by various agencies of the US Gov. and that the conspiracy was much broader than some megalomanic asthmatic high school drop out.

      • Jim Logan

        Ahh, I see, so Bill was on a radio show and said these things. I recall listening to him on one of these things from a year or more back, where he said some gibbering nonsense about being hired by LRH as a sort of “hitman” or somesuch.

        I’d known and worked with Bill in the late 70s at Flag when he was CO of the Int Training Org. I was the Director of Training over the Exec College. I watched as he was groomed by Steve Marlowe in CMO CW, under the direction of the “over the rainbow” CMO (which became CMO Int), i.e., the beginnings of the Watch Dog Committee made up of Messengers out west ( I was at Flag down east). Now, that unit, the upper echelon CMO unit, consisted of the guys that were at La Quinta, and is described by the Gang of Five reporting on Steve Hall’s old website scn-cult.

        John Nelson was CO CMO I, after it became CMO I or Int “formally” so to speak, and when it was located in Hemet or “Summer” as opposed to “Winter” which was La Quinta.

        The late 70s early 80s saw the formation of CMO Int, including WDC, with the various people that were in the CMO from the beginning, that is actual Watch Messengers, and others recruited to be in that upper echelon of the CMO. Lots of these people were taken from Clearwater, as it originally was the top CMO level, having been such with the arrival of all of the Apollo crew in 75 to Florida, first majorly to Daytona, then with the purchase of the Fort Harrison, moving all to Clearwater.

        I was in the FH the first week or so of Jan 76, and all of these people were there, including LRH himself (I personally saw him in the early months of Jan 76, in Clearwater).

        So, back to Bill Franks. He was groomed and put on post by the people who were CMO Int, including David Miscavige, who was part of this whole CMO including the upper echelon, unit (recall he was in CW in the late 70s, then went “over the rainbow”). Nelson was a later CO, following the removal of Dede Voegeding (see the Gang of Five report), by…David Miscavige. Nelson and Franks both were Comm Eved and declared by the guys “at Int”, that is, by DM and his forming up group “up there”. ( I had a nice chat with John Nelson in San Francisco in 1982 after he had been Comm Eved and removed from the CO CMO Int post.)

        My curiousness about Bill Franks’ admitting he was a CI (confidential informant) as you have said here, is just that. When he admitted it puts it in perspective for me as to its likely reality. Since it was fairly recently and along with his other “revelations” then it may or may not hold any water, since his mind is leaking like a sieve presently.

        OK, now, as to the last bit here in your response Robin, well, let’s take that up to the extent we can. I leave open any possibility in terms of what the gov types are capable of, and am well aware that over the years since this whole thing started (late 40s) that they’ve been at LRH and Dianetics and Scn incessantly, one way or another.

        However, that “plants” have come and gone, that the campaign has waxed and waned aside, what you assert is that the government has infiltrated Scientology and used DM as a puppet, or something like this, citing such dubious persons as Gregory Douglas aka Peter Stahl and some dubious list of CIA agent types, including DM and Heber, is far from sufficient fact to show that there is in fact any sort of what you continually say exists – the FBI, CIA, KGB, SMERSH, MI6 conglomerate has taken over Scn.

        My own experience, being in places including Flag, “over the rainbow”, knowing the various players in the game at the time, and observing myself this person David Miscavige, his crew including Mark Rathbun, Mike Rinder, the people at ASI, CST, and more of the intimate people to the scene than many others, including you I daresay, suggests that rather than some masterfully orchestrated John Le Carre novelesque infiltration and takeover by some community of intel operators and the “masters that run them”, frankly we have a combination of bungling, epurps, lack of KRC for what Scn actually is, dramo of R6 and a whole track of GPMs, some gov infiltration in the game, some leaking of this, some plants, and mostly – MOSTLY…

        Let me put it this way; if you’ve read the inane gibberings of Mark Rathbun as to his knowledge of the subject of Scientology, then you’ve got a picture of the kind of person who worked for and with David Miscavige for all those years. You’ve got Jenny Linson as another – completely bereft of any real KRC for what Scientology actually is. Or say Vicky Aznaran earlier, or James Byrne, or Mike Sutter or, or, or a long list of people who missed the freaking boat when it comes to what Scientology actually, really is, and what the game afoot with these “government types” actually is ( it isn’t since they don’t have any clue what Scn is either) and just what it is we are doing with Scientology, here, on this planet at this time.

        Incompetent, dramatizing Bank, unaware, dribblin’ fools, with the “best of intentions” have done it.

        DM is a Suppressive Person, with some tricks, and like any such that rises to a position of power and authority, he has wreaked havoc, and continues to do so, since that is what this case does. He is aided and abetted by the Bank, in its many manifestations, including the IRS as a Bank mechanism, the “shiny buildings” as call in units to be re-implanted a la whole track, and which attracts those seeking to renew their vows to the Bank (hence the nutter factor in this whole affair), the bungling incompetence of those who take him at his word and his word includes we’re under attack by Reptilian Illuminati, or what ever other bogey he sees, at almost every hand.

        Government infiltration and manipulation and now control of Scientology whether by the deceased Meade Emory, or other such types, is best left with those too restimulated to do anything about it, including, well including a long list of persons who I won’t list here, since they are already so over-restimulated I’d rather not add to it just now.

        Nah, I don’t buy this gov thing Robin. Because I was there. I saw myself, and like Occam’s Razor, the simpler explanation, based on the facts I’ve got and a sound grasp of just how the R6 Bank actually goes together, leaves me with an answer that opens the door to a handling I can get done.


        • Hey Jimbo,

          You forgot Cap’n Bill’s Marcabians 😉

          Anyways a lot of us were there too. Not at Int but on the periphery which was very scenic as well and included things that might have been written in and could’ve inspired a John Le Carre novel.

          Anyway in the famous words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as spoken through Sherlock Holmes:

          “when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?”

          For me one individual alone’s ability to wreak such havoc seems impossible to me.

          Regarding the Robert Crowley list. Those names were gotten from an independent source outside of the disputed territory of Scientology and were posted on a website that was a predecessor to Wikileaks in their exposure of the Espiocracy or the National Security State by called Cryptome based on a list given to them by Joseph Trento author of the book the Secret History of the CIA based on Robert Crowley’s death bed confessions:


          Instead of disputing it. Why don’t you consider the possibility that those names listed may possibly be agents of influence and that like Phillip Agee’s list of CIA proprietary companies and individual agents in his book Inside the Company may be valid?

          As far as I understand Trento had no ax to grind with Scientology.

          Or even better read what Ron says here in the following passage:

          ”And the government, apparently, is just trying to take over administrative control of
          the Church and run it into Receivership, and then suck all the Tech under its wing, drop the
          Shades of Night over it, and use it for the very select few” PDC 21

          Which is what I see is what is currently happening.

          Or more recently

          “… the United States government and the efforts of that government since 1955, stepped
          up since 1963, to seize Scientology rather than forbid or stop it … .” HCO PL 14 Jun 65 Issue III Politics, Freedom from

          Then there is also the following based on actual Dox obtained via FOIA:


          Sometimes the simple explanation isn’t actually the explanation and that there may be more to it.

          I know Ron seemed to think so. Or he wouldn’t have worried about infiltration and the possibility that the Government might hijack Scientology.

          I’m not saying that Miscavige didn’t cause a lot of damage. I am just not convinced that he acted alone. Bank or no bank.

          • Jim Logan

            DM may pander, propitiate, provide and do what he thinks it takes to gain “mainstream” with the gov. He may have a giant bankroll and some very savvy legal teams to put the gov off, should they ask for it, and he is willing to put it to them to the extent of overspending their budgets to fight him at little gain for them, and which gain (i.e., Scn no longer digging into things that the GO did with its very effective Freedom Mag and such like) they already have with DM being a bumbling numbnutted, useless SP that will support any other SP type activities.

            I don’t buy that he and in particular Heber are CIA, undercover, deep cover, implanted cover, Manchurian, Bulgravian or Marcabian. It doesn’t add up.

            • Just as I don’t buy that Miscavige is carrying out this operation all by his lonesome what I call “the lone Miscavige theory” without back up of some kind from some external source of some kind.

              Also if you carefully read the list then you would know that those listed are known as “agents of influence” which doesn’t mean they were implanted ala Manchurian Candidate or are operating under some kind of “deep cover”. One odious trait I find about what I call pseudo skepticism is its tendency in creating a straw man argument by hyperbole.

              That said I’ve never seen any case gain or benefit in those who claim Miscavige as the exclusive “who”.

              Marty and Mike should serve as perfect examples of those who have since gone off the deep end claiming Miscavige as the “who-there” and is exclusively behind every action taken by the Church.

              I can randomly give you examples that prove otherwise:

              For instance the decision to hand CATS its “Burn Notice” was influence by the IRS.

              The “making Scientology mainstream” campaign was totally influence by Robert Gray of Hill & Knowlton which is connected to CIA.

              The illegal abolishment of the GO and Controllers Office was an action influenced by the US (in) Justice Department.

              So called “Ideal Orgs” was based on a suggestion by Tom Cruise.

              The Golden Age of Tech was initiated after the death of Lisa McPherson who in my opinion was a plant per the following PAB:

              The Oldest Continuous Publication in Dianetics and Scientology
              From L. RON HUBBARD
              Via Hubbard Communications Office 163 Holland Park Avenue, London W.11
              30 September 1955
              PSYCHIA TRISTS
              Don’t be terribly surprised if in the next year or two the psychiatrists start pushing auditors around with even greater antagonism. And DON’T be caught flatfooted when they do.
              You know, auditor, we HAVE had a fight on our hands. And we have and WILL have a fight on our hands. The old Book One Black Panther mechanism is all right in its place, but it doesn’t do here.
              Nearly all the backlash in society against Dianetics and Scientology has a common source-the psychiatrist-psychologist-psychoanalyst clique. Their patter doesn’t vary. Behind the bulwark of authority these people, when asked about you, an auditor, or about the subject or about me, usually say that it is a hoax and that you or I are really just out of an institution for the insane.
              Wherever some auditor stupidly decides to co-operate with psychiatrists, he has been gobbled up very quickly. One cannot co-operate with them any more than he can “do business with Hitler.”
              You think maybe I’m just sawing out a tune when I say this. Very few people believe the actual true history of our science in the past five years, the amount of attack and antagonism to which it has been subjected. But let it suffice that about two million have been spent to put Dianetics and Scientology out of the running. Because the people trying to do it are, by and large, pretty stupid, and low-toned, the campaign has not succeeded. But the amount of fast action necessary to combat that much money has been, to say the least, exhausting.
              I could tell you a lot more about this: I could tell you about the strange finances of the BDR,* of DIANOTES, of other squirrel publications. I could tell you about three actual murders. I could tell you about long strings of psychotics run in on the Foundation and the Association, sent in to us by psychiatrists who then, using LSD and pain-drug-hypnosis, spun them and told everyone Dianetics and Scientology drove people insane. I could tell you about the strange politics and ambitions of psychiatry, so well covered in the book Psychopolitics, and give you a proper riddle as to why we, a small group, the only ANGLO-SAXON DEVELOPMENT IN THE FIELD OF THE MIND AND SPIRIT, have been subjected to so much attack and finance. But I am not telling you stories or being dramatic. I am inviting your co-operation in your own future security. Whether you believe this war exists, or believe the psychiatric rumor that it’s all a figment of my mind, it’s best to be safe in this battle.
              [* Bristol Dianetic Review, Bristol, England.]
              Copyright (©) 1955 by L. Ron Hubbard. All Rights Reserved.
              It’s best to be safe because it isn’t our battle and it isn’t our objective to ruin psychiatry or medicine. We don’t care about these. Our goals are to make more people more able, to make a rather inefficient society a lot more fun. In order to attain these goals we had better scan the river ahead for shoals and fit our craft so as to survive any, and having done that, lightheartedly continue on our way. Dianetics and Scientology are not political; they desire to overthrow no government. Each auditor anywhere is expected to continue his long-given allegiance. Dianetics and Scientology exist to serve and assist any given officialdom in a proper way. We have in view no empire of madmen all screaming for some dictator or banner. We have our place in the world of things as they are, and we can do an awful lot right in that place, seeing that we know more about the mind, the spirit and religion and even science than any other group in the world.
              Granting this, then, we should act to best fit our niches, and so do our jobs. About the only thing which upsets our forward course is the fact that psychiatry and medicine sit close to the advisers of state, and these officials, on matters of the mind, turn to psychiatrists for their opinion, and the psychiatrist there can be counted upon by his cult headquarters to give the right amount of sneer to the official about Dianetics and Scientology. The public as a whole love Dianetics and Scientology. Our word-of- mouth praise is remarkable. But in the official strata, because the psychiatrist is the authority, we are likely to be mud. Similarly, the newspaper, in wanting an opinion of us, calls the local medical or psychiatric board and again gets this formulated sneer and defamation. That the public responds to us and likes us is remarkable in the face of this authoritative calumny. Reversely, the public utterly LOATHES psychiatry. You waste time if you try to defame psychiatry to the public. The public is already in a spitting frame of mind on THAT subject. Coals to Newcastle, strictly. Psychiatry stands in the public mind for ineffectiveness, lies and inhuman brutality. The public is better informed on this than you suspect. The public only avoids YOU, an auditor, when it believes you are a psychiatrist or a psychologist, so there is no team-up; there never will be. The Busy Business Bureaus, advised by psychiatry, will always give Dianetics and Scientology a bad report no matter how hard you work to get them to give a good report. The answer—ignore them. We are an organization for and of the people.
              But don’t fail to take the steps to secure yourself an immunity from attack, auditor. Make sure all your papers are in good order. Make sure, no matter where you are in the world (for the last attack upon us was in Central Africa) that your ordination is in good order. Make sure that you are running a good and orderly congregation every Sunday morning. Make sure your Church is registered properly. Make SURE your literature says you make the able more able, and that insanity and illness are no more your problem than they would be the problem of any minister. Stay out of that slough of insanity and severe illness, for you don’t belong there and never will. Practically, I don’t know any auditor who ever came out unscathed entirely when he attempted to work with the severely ill or the insane. The amount of enturbulence caused by contact with such is fantastic.
              Now, not to scare you but to inform you, psychiatry has armed itself with several new drugs. One of these, LSD, has the total goal of driving persons insane for 15 to 25 hours—JUST long enough to convince people that your auditing spun the preclear. When you see a process solve a case, and then the case spins, don’t even bother to look for the needle mark on the pc. The APA spent their whole May convention in Atlantic City drooling over the effectiveness of this LSD, WHICH HAS NEVER MADE ANYONE WELL AND IS WELL KNOWN TO HAVE THE TOTAL PURPOSE OF PRODUCING INSANITY. Grim? Fantastic? Ha! Ask the few auditors who’ve had this done to the pc. For the pc or his family often has a psychiatrist looking in, unknown to the auditor. And it HAS happened. Wild? It’s a lot wilder when it’s happening to you as an auditor. The answer? Don’t process people with psychotic histories. That’s simple enough.
              Now if it does happen to you, don’t just abandon the case. Give the case a few exercises and observe the recurrence of the weird spin. Observe this carefully. And then bluntly inform the family or the authorities, if you are questioned or called in, THAT YOU AS PASTOR OF THE CONGREGATION TO WHICH THIS PERSON BELONGS HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE LIFE AND HEALTH OF THIS PERSON AND THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT UNDUE INFLUENCE WAS USED AND THAT SPECIFICALLY YOU GAVE EXERCISES TO AND OBSERVED THE PERSON IN QUESTION TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON HAD BEEN GIVEN THE INSANITY DRUG LSD SO THAT YOU COULD REPORT IT TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES. And don’t testify otherwise. Sounds wild? Well, always do it if involved in such a thing. You’ll find the family physician or psychiatrist was called in midway in processing (which consists, remember, entirely of making able people more able). You’ll find there is a vested interest somewhere in the insanity of this person. And so testify that you suspect it. We will have to hand lots of literature on LSD, in fact we’ll have the APA convention reports on it for you. If this happens to you, you, minister, are the only policeman who would suspect it. If, then, psychiatry “plants” one on you, look it over, report the sudden occurrence of insanity promptly, testify your suspicion of LSD, produce the literature on it and get the sheriff looking around for that medico or psychiatrist as fast as possible. BUT, don’t look for trouble in the first place. Leave insane people alone. I know we can do things for them. We can also shed light on how to solve the national debt, too.
              DON’T ever promise people you will cure them. If they want to know if Scientology will help their arthritis, tell them it often has been known to do so, but that that isn’t an auditor’s goal. If a person becomes more able, he’ll usually feel well. But DON’T advertise that you cure things. If you HAVE to advertise, I’ll give you some tips that work. They don’t include curing ills and insanity.
              You, as the most educated people on earth on the subject of the human spirit and MAN, certainly deserve a high role in the field of religion. We can reform all of religion and make it vastly better. Why clash with healing quacks?
              Scientology is for the people and of the people. It belongs to them. They are receiving it. They like it. Bear with our troubles with the dull official and Authority and go out and make a happier world.

              L. RON HUBBARD

              There are more influences than those that exist internally. The policy “Field Ethics” among others including the ConEvil Eval would apply apply as well.

              It is my believe if you actually want to blow the 3D Engram than I suggest it be viewed from all angles and not just the narrow periphery of the Int Base.

  6. P.S.

    BTW Jimbo regarding Occams Razor:


    Another thing is I don’t recall Ron ever mentioning using Occam’s Razor on a situation (if you can find a ref somewhere then I stand corrected but like Message to Garcia from the other Hubbard Elbert which was quite popular with SO execs for a while because it was mentioned in a SOS lecture like some Crowley book was in the PDCs but fortunately nobody as far as I know had been stupid enough to apply it and as far as I’m concerned that’s other tech like that stupid book Micky keeps raving about over at his blog called the Psychopath Next Store.

    We have more than enough data in Scientology to cover these things which includes policies and directives written by Ron which also considers what others would call “extreme possibilities”.

    Such as the following:


    And others contained in the Data Series among other places.

    By the way I wouldn’t underestimate some of these Gov Types. I’ve audited some of these guys when I was at AO and I’d say many of them have a good grasp of the workability and the potential of the subject than say someone like say Marty who I agree doesn’t have a frickin’ clue.

    Like I wrote once. The problem I have with a lot of Int alumni at time is that many are unwilling to consider as they say “extreme possibilities”.

    Mike’s a good example of this.


    Well he’s probably too busy studying his navel to be concerned about it.

  7. FWIW, I’m disinclined toward the “government takeover” hypothesis as well. Not that my opinion holds any weight at all; I did not travel in the same circles as the other contributors here. So I could be completely wrong.

    I’m well aware of all the attempts (successful and otherwise) to infiltrate the Church. But it’s a far more extreme assertion to make about Miscavige and his ilk. Such an assertion by one of the supposed conspirators can easily be made in order to sell books, get talk show bookings or other profit/attention-seeking motivations. Moreover, average human insanity is ample explanation for the activities of current Church saboteurs. (Occam’s Razor.)

    More importantly, it appears by all reports that the proximate originator of destructive orders has been Miscavige. So whether he is a government plant or simply a nut case is more or less moot. As a matter of history, you can prove Miscavige’s culpability. The connection to the government is merely speculation until proven or otherwise substantiated in some way. I’d be satisfied with an assertion like, “It is widely speculated that David Miscavige is actually part of a larger governmental conspiracy. But as there is no concrete evidence of this currently, the claim remains speculative”.

    For those who believe the government conspiracy hypothesis, feel free to believe as you prefer. Just realize that it is an assertion without proof so far, and don’t be surprised if others differ from you on this point.

  8. Paul,

    I don’t know anywhere where Ron says apply “Occam’s Razor” to the situation.

    BTW I never wrote that the Government has taken over the Church but does manipulate it and control it to a degree through what I suspect is their operative David Miscavige.

    Though it is for the most part speculation that he is working for CIA, the FBI or some other alphabet agency, he is definitely working as a deputized agent of the IRS as Chairman of the Church Tax Compliance Committee or CTCC.

    Prima Faca evidence is the former “Secret Closing Agreement”:


    You say that “(a)s a matter of history, you can prove Miscavige’s culpability”. True his crimes in many cases reported by reliable witnesses but it is still hearsay while many us so called “crack pots” and “conspiracy theorist” can prove the Government’s involvement and interference with Scientology and Dianetics going back to their inception.

    I suggest you read the two books I have linked to:



    Plus I will also include the link again to the Top Secret actions taken against the Church by officers and agents of CIA and MI6:


    Then let’s see what the Ol’man has to say about the situation:





    As I wrote there is all kinds of evidence that there has been and probably currently *is* some kind of covert operation against the Church.

    Now you can pooh pooh it and apply the Medieval “tech” of Occam’s Razor or you can look at it objectively which I suggest you should be doing if you plan to do a history of the Organization.

    • Jim Logan

      I am not pooh-poohing gov interference with LRH, Dianetics, Scientology. They have, from the get go. There is ample evidence of this. COINTELPRO is but one of their ploys. There is no suggestion by me that this knowledge constitutes a “crackpot” view of things.

      However that is not the same as DM and Heber ARE CIA agents. It is not the same as what you are putting forth that DM “had help” from this or a similar agency to take over the CofS and has been an agent, is an agent of one of these types of operations.

      If Occam’s principle is a button, then fine, use the concept of simpler, embracive data clarify more data. The Data Series calls for this in the Why that explains the outpoints, and that can be used to rectify the scene, and that DOES rectify the scene when put into action.

      In this case, the “string” of DM as agent can be pulled with the info extant. Does it pull to something? Does the mere listing of his name in some book as agent qualify as fact? Or is it something to be explored, by chasing down what can be chased down – and the first thing is chasing down the source of the listing, its likely validity, etc.

      Comparing this string, the DM as CIA agent, to other data, does it lead anywhere, really? Does it explain other outpoints? Do other outpoints arise that aren’t explained by this as an assumption?

      By all means, pull the string. But if it dead ends, it doesn’t compare to other facts, it doesn’t explain the outpoints fully, it is then a dead end. The cat, gorilla, Sherman Tank, doesn’t appear unless of course one is biased and puts them there, however vaguely. That sort of Data Analysis isn’t sound.

      Again, I’m not pooh-poohing the facts that there have been tactical actions of plant, infiltrate, the whole COINTELPRO ploy, the entire gamut of actions taken over the years against LRH, Dianetics and Scientology. They have occurred. They will continue, in greater or lesser degree to occur, as long as these types of agencies and governments continue to operate dramatizing the Bank.

      But, looking into DM’s area, as a good string puller does, then his area doesn’t reveal these connections, other than he’s simply playing the game (the Tax Compliance thing, abomination that it is, is an example. Done to secure the 501 (c) 3 status, and as a tool for DM to suppress Scientologists, yes, but as a Target on some gov program? Hardly.)

      Not to digress too far, but as a datum of comparable magnitude, Hitler was used by the powers that be, the bankers, the industrialists, those playing that global financial game of profit/control, the psychs and their theories of man as animal et al as a means, and the whole nine yards of the dramo of R6. But, Hitler wasn’t an “agent”. He was mad, and had his own agenda and purposes. It was a fortuitous coming together of nuts, each with their own purposes.

      DM’s like that. An SP, that once he got going, made the work of the gov easy. One of their “own”, in play, and being one of their own, by the very nature of the Bank and in his case, the SP valence. Now, if you have an SP/PTS gov type, or officer or agency post, AND DM doing his thing, you have the makings of destruction these cases pursue. Not because they are being directed by some person in the shadows to do such, but because they have their Banks in common, and the Bank commands destruction.

      Occam’s principle or the Logics, take your pick. Either one tends to the explanation that explains the outpoints, and is basic and simple.

      • Jim,

        There is nothing you have written here that I dispute but in my opinion there is a wider game in play that goes beyond Miscavige and the Int Base. Have you studied the histories and connections of these many so called “patrons”?

        Also I’m not saying that Miscavige is directly taking his orders from Langley and like any dictator he uses them as much as they use him. But you must admit that he has some “guardian angel” of some kind keeping his ass out of stir despite his various and sundry crimes.

        Whether it is just an obvious Omertà of some kind between what is currently left of “management” or involves some broader conspiracy. There is still a conspiracy.

        True Hitler had his own goals and aspirations but he was also advised as well by his inner circle.

        I’m just saying that we just shouldn’t fixate on Miscavige since you know as well as I do when you get a who-where than you know your eval is incomplete.

    • RV:

      Re Occam’s Razor, this is a basic pillar of science. I don’t have to hand a quote from LRH directly on the subject, but in Evolution of a Science, he says “All answers are basically simple”, which is a fair restatement of the same principle. I’m fairly certain he mentioned it somewhere by name, and am equally certain he followed it and used it. Of course, my certainty does nothing for you. But his research track shows definite signs of its use. The original concept of the thetan is a sign of it. An uncomforable but unavoidable conclusion fought over by the original members of the HDRF and the reason Ron had to wrest control of the subject away from them. The immortal thetan, outside this universe, was the only reasonable explanation for past lives, which at that point could no longer be ignored. Such are the kinds of situations where Occam’s Razor is applied. So went the Earth-centered view of the universe and so went plate tectonics.


      • MaBű

        Paul, Occam’s Razor has many versions. Will you please state which ones are you referring to.

        • MaBű

          P.S.: The main reason I’m asking you for clarification is because you are in charge of the history project and you applying it to the project.

          • I agree MaBu.

            According to Occam’s Razor only the simplest theory will serve under what is called the principle of parsimony even if the more complex theory is the correct one.

            For instance according to Occam’s Razor we are to accept the theory that “Oswald acted alone” despite the contrary evidence either ignored by the Warren Commission or uncovered by subsequent research because it is the simplest theory regarding the Kennedy Assassination.

            Also from my reading of Occam or Ockham which is based on as in derived from the writings of a medieval Franciscan Friar from Ockham in England much of it added to sometime after his death.

            Here’s is a good article on the subject:


            Note that Occam would exclude the possibility of the paranormal or the “unexplained”. See link link to MW:


            Seems Project Blue Book used this “principle” quite often when concluding some natural phenomenon as an explanation for UFOs.

            To me this avoids all theories that may be true but are complex and only favors idiotic simplicity because it is based on the KISS philosophy whether it is true or not.

            A poor form of “logic” in my opinion. The fact that wikipedia practically endorses it should make one pause when considering its validity.

            The actual subject of logic is covered fully in the Data Series and this is the data we should be applying to the scene in my opinion.

            Also Ron did not use anything as primitive as Occam’s razor but by employing a Heuristic and Scientific Method which is something else entirely.

        • MB:

          You are quite right, there are multiple formations of it. Off he cuff, I’d say, “All things being equal, the simplest explanation, however improbable, is probably correct.” LRH’s restatement of this in Evolution of a Science is useful: “All answers are basically simple.” A perhaps more convoluted version would be, “When all other hypotheses have proven false, what remains, however unlikely, is generally the correct hypothesis”.

          My earlier example here about the thetan was a good example of this. In Book One, LRH generally pooh-poohed past track incidents. This is understandable, since that book was written partially to gain the acceptance and approval of the medical/psychiatric community. He instructed the auditor (as I recall) to accept them so as not to invalidate the PC, but not to spend time on them. But as time wore on (and a short time at that), it became clear that dealing with the whole track charge on incidents garnered vast improvements in tone and handling aberration. One could have theorized that handling imaginary incidents was therapeutic, but after a few verifications of whole track identities and such, it became clear that the incidents being run were likely real. However, to admit the whole track, it was necessary to admit that some agent survived death to assume a new body, which did not follow the protoplasm line. Thus, the concept of the immortal, non-MEST thetan was born. And although this seemed to fly directly in the face of all scientific inquiry, it was the only reasonable explanation which fit the phenomena. It was left, then, to investigate the nature of the thetan, its characteristics and capabilities.

          The original members of the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation, most or all men of science and notable editors and authors, could not accept such a hypothesis, even though it was clearly the only one which explained all the phenomena. There ensued a power struggle between the Board and LRH, which LRH ultimately won. The research thus went forward.


          • MaBű

            Hi Paul, Thank you for your answer. I didn’t forgot about this, I’m just busy this week(s).

          • MaBű

            Paul: “All things being equal, the simplest explanation, however improbable, is probably correct.”

            With “however improbable, is probably correct” I assume you mean that the simplest explanation, even if it has a (very) low probability, its probability is greater than the probability of each of the other more complex explanations.

            “All things being equal, the simplest explanation is probably correct” might be correct with two implicit assumptions: there is more than enough information available about the subject being examined, and all the competing explanations are doing the same predictions.

            it’s a good idea to examine Occam’s Razor from the Crime Reconstruction viewpoint (since you are applying it to historical analysis of events with O/Ws).

            From the book Crime Reconstruction:
            “§ Oversimplification and Occam’s Razor
            The Razor
            Reconstructionists with a basic notion of logic and reasoning might invoke Occam’s razor to defend oversimplified interpretations. They might suggest that the scientific method reveals simplicity and that complexity relates directly to improbability—the more complex a theory, the less probable, given Occam’s razor. This would be a misunderstanding, and an abuse, of the concept.
            Occam’s razor is an often-misstated principle that, ironically, has been reduced for mass consumption to the point of misapplication. Not uncommonly, it is stated as something along the lines of ‘all things being equal, the simplest explanation is most often the correct one.’ Although this interpretation of Occam’s razor sounds good and has the virtue of popping up in a television show or movie every now and again, it is inaccurate.
            Simplified, but Not Simpler
            Occam’s razor demands fewer blended theories, fewer assumptions, and the eradication of phenomenology. This is a far cry from the fatuousness of ‘don’t get bogged down by the facts’ and ‘the simplest explanation is most likely correct.’ Occam’s razor and its progeny are important tools, but should not be used as a substitute for reason or as an excuse to ignore relevant information because it makes a preferred conclusion easier to prove.”

            • I agree MaBu. Never was a big fan of Occam’s Razor especially when you are dealing with a complexity with many different facets, aspects and components. I mean if the solution was so simple stupid then I doubt the Ol’man woulda wasted the time to study logic and develop the Data Series. For that matter the Grade Chart in general. And the only processes we’d have to run would be “be three feet back of your head” or “don’t be ___” for reverse flow cases.

              Much of this from a case aspect is covered in the HCOB Nature of a Being.

          • MaBű

            Robin: “Never was a big fan of Occam’s Razor especially when you are dealing with a complexity with many different facets, aspects and components.”

            Properly understood and properly applied, Occam’s Razor is a valuable and important tool.

            My above comment is about misapplications and misunderstandings of Occam’s Razor.

            When properly understood and properly applied to complex (and non-complex) systems it avoids overcomplexity. However, when misapplied, it causes oversimplification.

            From the University of California:
            “Occam’s razor is often cited in *stronger* forms than Occam intended, as in the following statements. . .
            ‘If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along’
            ‘The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations.’
            ‘If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest.’
            ‘The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.’
            Notice how the principle has strengthened in these forms which should be more correctly called ‘the law of parsimony’ […] To begin with, we used Occam’s razor to separate theories that would predict the same result for all experiments. Now we are trying to choose between theories that make different predictions. This is not what Occam intended.
            The law of parsimony is no substitute for insight, logic and the scientific method. It should never be relied upon to make or defend a conclusion.”

            Robin: “According to Occam’s Razor only the simplest theory will serve under what is called the principle of parsimony even if the more complex theory is the correct one.”
            This is also a misapplication of Occam’s Razor.

            • Well MaBu you can use what is called “Occam’s razor” (even though much of it is interpreted and extrapolated from what some Franciscan Monk by the name of William who happened to live in Occam England in the Middle Ages had really intended since it was originally based on the principle of parsimony AKA known as reductionism, logical economism or nominalism) if you wish. I’ll stick with the Data Series where there is absolutely no mention of it.

              I’m sure Ron who had a pretty thorough understanding of history and philosophy would have at least mentioned it. If it was a viable system of logic. Yet he doesn’t.

              We don’t have to ask why that is? Though I am sure that plausible reason is that Occam’s razor in most cases despite what the article you’ve cited says sought out the simplest explanation simply because it was the simplest explanation. Not necessarily because it was correct or true explanation.

              Occam’s razor leads although proponents of it claim otherwise away from hidden causes or influences and only those are apparent or seemingly “obvious”. In my opinion if Ron had insisted on using Occam’s razor instead of the heuristic method of discovery he would have never uncovered the Reactive Mind and this discussion would be purely academic.

      • Paul,

        There is nowhere Ron says he used Occam’s razor. You look through the tech volumes new and old and you not find any mention of it in either index. You’d think if it was such an important concept that it would at least be mentioned there.

        I’ve also listened to all the lectures on the Briefing Course and I don’t remember Ron mentioning it there either.

        I’ve read the whole Data Series several times and don’t ever recall it ever being mentioned there either. So as far as I’m concerned it is nothing but verbal tech unless you can find an actual ref written by Ron where he says to use Occam’s Razor.

        Also to correct you regarding the original HDRF was never taken back by Ron. He left after his dispute with Joseph Winter and the original Board of Directors there over his research into Past Lives. This is mentioned several times on the Briefing Course lectures.

        What happened after Ron left was that HDRF went into Bankruptcy and its past debts were covered by Don Purcel. I have a quote from the original GO Directive that covers this point and will be happy to post it once I dig it up if you wish.

  9. 1984

    There is also Intuitive logic. Looking at the various actions and results over time (and they are pretty consistent to killing the tech), the intention becomes clear.
    Looking at all the efforts involved, (including the explanations used), resulted in a very common result. Since the 80’s, one can attribute this all to the little one, but before?
    (Is Davie really that competent as to attack the tech, the church, the field, ect, all by himself? It would be good to know if he has help, and from where.)
    The govt is known to have been involved since the late 40’s. They have a lot of resources, and don’t give up easily. It would be normal for them to make a long term effort to infiltrate Scientology, and take over.

    The idea “…suggests that rather than some masterfully orchestrated John Le Carre novelesque infiltration and takeover by some community of intel operators and the “masters that run them”, frankly we have a combination of bungling, epurps, lack of KRC for what Scn actually is, dramo of R6 and a whole track of GPMs, some gov infiltration in the game, some leaking of this, some plants, and mostly – MOSTLY…” This is a nice comment, but it implies that all goes according to plan, however “Battle plans don’t survive first contact with the enemy”, and jurisdiction and/or personal controllers can change over time.

    All this is just a theory, but is it probable from the viewpoint of an intelligence agency? (They make their own sense.)
    If Ron was effective in resisting them, they would be changing and increasing their efforts.

    The idea of stealing the tech for their own purposes, and then depriving everyone else of it is a believable goal of theirs. If it is so, they came close (and it is not over yet).

    • I agree ’84.

      In my opinion if we just fixate on the Int Base and Miscavige we lose the whole picture.

      Besides as I wrote earlier some us weren’t at the base but were in other areas of Scientology and may have seen things.

      What to be blunt pisses me off about former Int Personal (though I will say that Lana and Jim are more the exception than the rule) is that they tend to patronize anyone who was on Staff or in the Field (by that I mean Marty and Mike specifically but there are others) and assert that they’re data and observations is irrelevant as if they were f-ckin’ Moses coming down from Mount Sinai or frickin Buddha coming from some %$$@& Bodhi Tree imparting “wisdom” to the unwashed masses.

      (Not that I have any %&$$###@!!! BPC on that sorta thing 😉 but anyway.)

      From what I understand Scientology operates best using a multiple viewpoint system. Not by some form of Authoritarianism.

      Take for example Mike. He said something stupid like it was Ron who ordered the Financial Dictatorship or the take down of the Franchise Network and so I countered by asking me to direct me to these orders in writing and he only rebuttal was “I was there”.

      BFD so he was there. So what? I was the middle of the LA Riots but I didn’t know half of what went on and I’ve been in a couple of big Earth Quakes where our only accurate source of information was from outside sources. So f_cking what if “he was there”. He coulda been on drugs or half asleep. Aside from the fact that he could be lying his sorry ass off to justify his own overts.

      Also from all the lies I see streaming from some former Int Base personal like David Mayo for example I kinda suspect collaboration more than what actually happened.

      Anyway that said I trust Lana and Jim to give us a honest and factual report on what went on over at the Magic Kingdom but I don’t believe it is the whole picture. Just as I don’t believe that Miscavige is the only SP involved. He’s actually the most obvious one but from my understanding of Handling the Suppressive Person, The Basis of Insanity there must be others not so obvious.

      • P.S.

        I’d also like to add that my assessment of Miscavige is very similar to yours. I figure the guy can’t walk and chew gum at the same time and my opinion of him has pretty much remained the same since I saw him on Nightline.

        Thus I feel that it is impossible to pull off what looks like a coordinated effort to destroy without some advisement of some kind. In fact from what I know about this “ideal org” fiasco it wasn’t his idea but Tom Cruise’s and some of us suspect this Golden Age of Tech was based on another idea from Cruise from acting school or some other weird source.

        I know for sure (because I was there 😉 at the briefing which was the same briefing that they said they were gonna make Scientology as popular as Micky Ds and compared delivering Standard Tech to serving up a Big Mac at which point I found it hard to keep from gagging) that this whole making Scientology mainstream idea was from spooky Robert Gray and Hill & Knowlton.

        Yeah sure we should bring up Mister Miscavaige’s various Crimes and High Crimes of which there are many but we shouldn’t limit our discussion to those.

        As far as I’m concerned you can shout DAVE IS AN SP! from the CN Tower or wherever but it doesn’t bring in my GIs.

    • Jim Logan

      OK, let’s say they have persisted in a long term game of taking the Tech for their own purposes. Let’s say the idea proposed in the PDC (since taken out by DM) that with this body of knowledge, Scientology, one has released the most powerful tools there are to manipulate minds, which is true. Consider then LRH’s answer to that release – release the fix, broadly and see that it is known and applied. That’s KSW in a nutshell, in terms of its taking away of the “government ogre” in any of its appearances.

      The point being, that it is the Bank – the R6 Bank – THE Bank as defined from say the 20th ACC on up through all that GPM research to the CC (including up to OT III) that is in play here. DM is not a CIA agent. He is a Bank agent. The Bank, in the form of the thoughts and efforts of it as manifested in the twisted views of stomping out effective Scientology and converting it with use of its powerful techniques a la Black Dianetics/Scn, and those efforts of these clandestine orgs to do so, is the “agent” that is common.

      The fall of the CofS is due to failure to know and use Dianetics and Scientology by enough beings to avoid the takeover by an SP. It has persisted in its funk due to the same failure to know and use the material by those who should know and use it. Some of those who should have known, have revealed themselves on these blogs as being so far from grasping what this is about, that now it is NO WONDER it went as it has gone.

      Today, the same problem persists – building a world with broken tools – and the lack of real KRC for Scientology. Misavige is clueless as to what Scientology actually is. So is the CIA. It isn’t “mind control”. It is the truth of how the mind is made, why it is made, how it persists, how it survives, how survival itself occurs and the fact of time rides as the fundamental of all aberration.

      Miscavige as CIA agent as part of a 70 some year Intel program by some vastly aware Illuminati is a dead end “why”. There are NO “illuminati” save real OTs trained in the full body of work of Scientology. There are “un-illuminati” – and there lack of illumination has substituted GPM ideas in the place of aware beings, at cause over and able to confront the is-nesses that is.

      • Jim Logan

        Let me add something to this last comment that may clarify what I’m on about. It was/is not enough that only L. Ron Hubbard know what Scientology actually, fully, really is and what it does. That situation was the situation that existed in the late 70s. It is the underlying Why for the idiocies that occurred in the late 70s, early 80s and have now become the manifestation we see as the CofS under one of the chief idiots Dave Miscavige. It is also the Why that explains the proliferation of goofus things in the broad field, including the idiocy of Bill Roberston, or any other variation that people chase into the inky dark.

        Failure to know and use our body of work. It is not enough that only LRH know what this thing is. Which is why he wanted this material broadly released, studied, worked with, and the whole thing known and used.

        When I say “I was there” what I mean is I observed the lack of KRC for this subject. I looked and saw the most inane, wrong target, stupid and senseless things done. Things that defied any rationality, and more to the point, things that were and are nothing other than Bank dramatizations, which occurred in the presence of the material that explained them AS Bank, and which material may as well have been on Arcturus for all it was studied, known and used.

        What happened in the late 70s and early 80s and from 86 on in a progressively more obtuse and irrecognizable “Scientology”? Not a “who”, not a “where” but a WHY? The same Why that is in KSW. It is the same Why – failure to know, and use, and thereby get to know, FULLY what this whole thing is, from its beginning, through all those tapes in the 50s, up through the entire BC, all those HCOBs, and 1,000s of hours of auditing it, and then CSing it, and actually DOING the entire Bridge, like L. Ron Hubbard did. Too few real OTs with the entire package of the needed KRC to actually get done what needs to be done.

        LRH told my wife, one of his favorite terminals in that life, that “legal”, i.e., all this gov plant stuff, the infiltrations, the Black PR campaigns, the harassment et al, had to be handled, but was NOT the onus, and was a Q&A with Bank, and that he and he was suggesting she, should always put the coals to doing Scientology – auditing and training, as without that then this thing ain’t going. It is failure to get results – even on those people in the CMO Int, at ASI, in the “All Clear Unit”, that brought about what we find we are in today. Not the CIA or some shadow group manipulating this scene as some sort of whole track aware conspiracy. They too are buried here, on this planet, in Bank.

        • Well I’m not disputing you on these points either. I mean we both know what Ron says in KSW about the Ogre that will eat us up is not the Government by our failure to practice Scientology.

          That said the actions the GO took and that OSA seems unable to take are holding actions. Those covered in Attacks on Scn (continued), Counter Espionage, various GO Directives etc. What he says about a fire truck and yapping dogs in RJ 67 applies as well.

          Yes and I agree you about the Church of Scientology being off the rails. In fact it is so far off the rails it could probably be called the Church of Psychiatry 😉

          But when all said and done. We are exploring why this is and how it was done. A lot of it speculation, interspersed with facts but as seen from different View Points.

      • I’m not disputing you Jim. All I’m saying is that Miscavige is not the only SP.

        I mean why do we have 3 S&Ds instead of just one.

        Fact is going Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave 24/7 just doesn’t turn my crank or bring in my indicators.

        Also as far as agents are concerned aside from those listed in the Art of War are those known as witting and unwitting and in Miscaviges special case probably no witting.

        However witting or not they still act on behalf those agencies who employ them even if it’s under a False Flag of some kind or they are considered “friends” say like Davy’s buds in that den of inveterate Nazis like InterPol or the financial fascista AKA IRS.

        They don’t need a badge or ID of any kind to be working on behalf of some agency. All they have to doing is what such agency wants them to do.

        Thus it is obvious to me that even though he is no card carrying member of WFMH he is still working for Smersh whether Dave knows it or not.

        Yes it true failure to apply the technology had led us down the twisted path we are on. But note that failure to apply the tech also includes failing to sit Miscavige with a pair emeter cans in his hands and ask him to consider committing overts against Mary Sue and noting the Rock Slam.

        But anyway.

        You and I say that this whole chain of events started in the ’70’s a point in time when dear Davy had no influence. Thus as I wrote earlier when we started that he is late on the chain.

        In fact in my opinion Miscavige is the aberrated stable datum that followed the confusion just prior to it. In many cases when discussing Dave it’s like one of those PC’s who keeps talking about the same damn problem over and over again and the TA does nothing but go up and up and up. It’s the same crap you read on Marty or Mike’s blog like one of those radio stations that plays the same old song all the time.

        Like I said I ain’t disputing that he is an SP. All I’m saying is that he is not the ONLY SP.

        As I wrote earlier to say that some asthmatic high school drop out with delusions of grandeur was all by himself and without any help able to take down what at one time was one of the most powerful and influential organizations on this planet composed of OTs is in my opinion an invalidation.

        Also to me that’s just as crazy as Cap’n Bill and his intergalactic Conspiracy of Marcabians.

        Having said that I’m not saying that Miscavige shouldn’t be put on the top of the list of interested parties but it would and should included those who were accessories as well and the Comm Ev if there ever was one should look for outside influence including those covered in Field Ethics such as the Daytons, Jensens, Van Susteren, Coles and Cruises as well.

        You narrow the target too much without doing a proper eval to find the Situation first per DS 11 then as Marty would continually say but would never apply himself you’ll miss the forest for the trees.

        • Jim Logan

          OK, take the sequence earlier than DM, back to say, the late 60s, on the ship, with the data that was coming up that gave us The Guardian PL. From there, let’s say that it was established by pulling strings that there was a concerted effort on the parts of the bad guys to mess with Scn, still, coming up from the early days (chasing back to all that CIA/APsychA nonsense, with Ewan Cameron, Brock Chisholm, attempts to get Dianetics, the stunts, the plants, the thises and thatas) and continuing into that time, more so than ever.

          The GO was getting their feet wet in the area, and getting sharp at doing what they should do. Then, “somebody” had the bright idea to break the law to get the goods. Why? Well, in that regard Robin, I’m with you. I think it was part of a ploy that was part of COINTELPRO. Person’s were gotten, or compromised or blackmailed or they just were “agent provocateur” from the start, and off the GO went head first into the game they way THEY played it – dirty (as you’ve mentioned with reference to Mr. Garrison’s work).

          Well, those fellas are dirtier, and they won the game of playing dirty. The rats within, whether knowing or unknowing and a mix of both, gone, the case against the gov (the one mounted for $750 Million) thrown out for “unclean hands” and the debacle there to be cleaned up.

          Now, DM comes in at the tag end of this. He’s an SP with designs on running the joint. He’s got sychophants and those flush with the ideas of “power” and this is their Simon Bolivar. Not too bright on any score, full of Ser Fac and self-importance, drunk with authority and a brutal leader in DM. Perfect timing. A made-to-order scene for somebody with DM’s ambitions and valence.

          …to be continued.

          • Jim Logan

            P.S. Just to avoid a needless quibble here, the Guardian was established in 66. LRH already aware of the scene, having experienced it for so long, and with events in Rhodesia making it all the more apparent. It escalated with the early days of the Sea Org. The heat was on, as the GO formed up and went at the source of this shit.

            • Hey I ain’t quibbling there. Roger that GO formed after Talk on Rhodesia 1 March 66. Mary Sue appointed first Guardian check. Used successful against Smersh and the Intel Coup reported as part of RJ 67.

              Hey Jimbo seems possible that without the help of the GO and the SO combined that the Ol’man would have never discovered Section III OT.

              • RV:

                I think if you listen again to RJ67, you’ll find that LRH knew the Wall of Fire was there already. In fact, I’d guess that one or more PCs had already died or were made seriously ill to find what little LRH knew of it prior to 1967. On the tape, he talks specifically about going back to do a contact assist on an injured area or two (mentioned figuratively in relation to the Wall of Fire material). I think part of the reason for the GO and SO was to backstop him in case something went horribly wrong in the research he knew he was about to carry out. Much earlier, Ron had engaged in “track mapping” the whole track. If the area was as suppressed as he said, it would have shown up as a huge blank spot. This could have served as a huge target at the time. But I suspect LRH discovered the material to be deadly and discontinued the research until such time as Scientology could be amply run and supported without him (in case of the worst). Once he started the research, he suffered numerous physical injuries as a result, indicating just how serious this material was. But it was insufficient to simply get himself through it. He had to figure a way to get others through as well.

                I have not done OT III, so I’m not privvy to the material on it. However, I have listened to RJ 67 numerous numerous times, and this is how I would interpret what he says on the tape.


                • Paul,

                  I’m not disputing your personal understanding of RJ 67 and you are correct that the Org Board parallels various levels of the Grade Chart.

                  Note the awareness Characteristics above each department align with those on the Grade Chart.

                  Yet correct me if I’m wrong but I feel that you are saying that the GO and Sea Org were temporary solutions. Is this the case?

                  Actually I don’t know as much about the SO’s establishments as the GO’s since the SO mostly is covered by FOs Flag Orders which have the same force as policy to Sea Org Members while the Guardian and Controller were established by policy.

                  What they do is covered by what are called GO Directives but there are some policies you can find in the original OECs in Vol 7 which also covers Ad Councils as well something that the current management has totally eliminated but this is a different topic so I’ll move on.

                  The Sea Org’s purpose was originally to run OT Bases such as Alicante in Spain and later the other AOs that formed in other Conts.

                  Originally Orgs other than Advanced Orgs were managed by WW and Sea Org Orgs were run from Flag through what were originally called FOLOs Flag Operation Liaison Offices then somewhere along the line mission creep occurred and they ended up running the whole show and then the lawyers came in and RTC took it over and so it went by the boards as they say.

                  That said the GO and the SO serve their specific purposes. The first is to promote the indispensability of Scientology and the other to get ethics in. Neither of those objectives have been fully achieved as far as I’m concerned.

          • Hey I’m tracking with you Jim. I’m looking forward to the continuation of the story. Ya got me on the edge of my seat :)

          • Ok Jimbo,

            I’ve been waiting for your continuation here. I’d just like to add that yes:

            “Now, DM comes in at the tag end of this. He’s an SP with designs on running the joint. He’s got sychophants and those flush with the ideas of “power” and this is their Simon Bolivar. Not too bright on any score, full of Ser Fac and self-importance, drunk with authority and a brutal leader in DM. Perfect timing. A made-to-order scene for somebody with DM’s ambitions and valence.”

            Sometime after GO 1361, the Grand Jury Indictment which would have never been occurred with out the help of Meisner the Stoolie and probable CI who ironically was the one who personally conceived GO 1361 and therefore could be considered an Agent Provocateur who Marty says was “disillusioned” , the Scn 11 plea bargaining and being misled that if they plead Nolo Contendere to a ridiculous “Stipulation of Evidence” which reads more like a badly written spy novel than a Government document, that they’d be able to appeal the verdict yet when they requested an appeal was denied ( I mean what do you expect the same so called Justice Department that would later steal software from an independent software developer reverse engineer it and then try to bankrupt the company that developed it but I digress) so you have Mary Sue now in a weakened position having been worked over by what is laughingly called the forces of “Law and Order” followed by a power push or more accurately a mutiny by CMOI who managed to get away with it by claiming they were “saving the Church” probably thanks to Pat Broeker who was their point man on PR.

            You mention the Bolivar Policy. Well you and I both know that Scientology can be used as a double edged sword. They probably knew that Ron was too distracted by Flynn and Assoc’s effort to steal the Church using Ron’s estranged son Nibs and that he’d handle the scene according to that policy which he did. At least according to Miscavige in the “Man Behind Scientology” when he was informed six months later that his wife had been removed from the post of Controller.

            According to Marty they kept the poor woman virtually under house arrest at Chisholm Drive while they took over the Church and wiped out the GO. Now with the GO out of the way and Ron moving toward wrapping up his research. All they had to do was put on a good show for the Ol’man and make themselves seem indispensable by seeming to run interference for him i.e. the Riverside Declaration stating that Miscavige was a “trusted friend”.

            BTW Jim moles do that all the time. They gain the trust of those they seek to subvert. For instance in the book the Secret History of the CIA written by Trento which is the genesis of the list that has dear Dave on it that you so hotly contest is the story of Sasha who like Philby, Ames and others made himself “indispensable” as well to the FBI and CIA turning in small operatives while he assiduously worked for NKVD and later for KGB.

            True you can boil it down and say that Dave is an SP. But he happens to be an SP with a lot of juice behind him from various quarters. Either internally in the case of CMOI or externally when we refer those elitist patrons who keep handing over the big bucks so that he can do as much damage as he can to the Organization.

      • Jim,

        BTW I agree that we should work on getting the tech broadly applied so it doesn’t get buried out of sight.

        If I didn’t state that earlier.

        Having said that though I’ll enter my working theory that someone like Dave and whoever is supporting him has done an excellent job of driving the tech out of side and totally invalidating within the Church at least.

        This why many of us suspect that some aspects of this operation were planned and it wasn’t just bank. I mean in the reactive sense that shit just happened.

  10. I do find our history fascinating. For quite some time the main “historians” out here have been Marty and Rinder, who are determined to make Ron the real SP,so everything they have to say is extremely biased. I have it on good authority that Omar Garrison’s book ” The Hidden Story Of Scientology” is excellent and I intend to buy it.

    • MaBű

      The Hidden Story Of Scientology by Omar V. Garrison

      Read on-line

      Download html as a compressed zip file (starts in index.html).

      • Thanks MaBu,

        Downloaded the zip and it turned out it had an exe. file (probably in order to access content) which is an unworkable extension for a Mac but I forgive you 😉

        Probably could run it through my VB or use Crossover but that’s ok. I’ve read the book several times once in print and on my Mac.

        I’d like to add that though the FZ website has a lot of good data on it. However it does use Russell Miller’s book Bare Faced Messiah as a reference “source” among other as they say in the Intelligence Community “unreliable sources of information” like David Mayo for example.

        Also it is difficult to navigate since it probably hasn’t been updated since the early ’00’s. Another one which is an exceptional source that has culled some interesting docs and is quite useable as long as you avoid the leap of “logic” that the IRS controls the Church is the following:


        Another is a series of posts posted by someone or a group of individuals calling themselves the Alt. Religion Scientology Central Committee or ARSCC Librarian that are also quite interesting and forward a unique narrative which are preserved here:


        Though I must say the best reference on Ron’s years in the Navy working for the ONI is Marg’s posted here. She deserves many kudos for the work she has done in dead agenting (in the proper use of the term per the PR Series) the critics and other hatchet bearers:



        • MaBű

          Robin: “Downloaded the zip and it turned out it had an exe. file (probably in order to access content) which is an unworkable extension for a Mac but I forgive you ;)”

          Thank you for forgive me. I also forgive you for downloading a zip with an exe. :-)

          Yesterday, I downloaded the “Hidden Story.zip” file which didn’t have any exe file. Today, after reading your comment, I downloaded again the “Hidden Story.zip” and made a byte by byte comparison of the two zip files: they are identical. Then, I generated a text file (“Hidden-Story-zip.txt”) containing the treeview of the extracted files and folders (so you could compare it to your zip file); and then, I uploaded it to here: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=56036438847476589445 . I wonder how you got an exe in the zip file.

          • MaBű

            P.S.: It looks like, sometimes, when “Hidden-Story-zip.txt” is clicked (in TinyUpload.com) it opens a “MediaDownloader” window. Just close it, and proceed with the “Hidden-Story-zip.txt” download.

            • MaBu I don’t know what package your downloading but mine doesn’t have any .txt extensions the one I got is .html. Actually what I thought at first blush was an exe. is actually an exec with a .whtt extension which should really be a .wtf extension 😉

              Anyway I checked it out:


              It’s all good.

              Thanks and by the way welcome aboard :)

              • MaBű


                The text file (“Hidden-Story-zip.txt”) is a file which I generated. It contains the treeview of the files and folders inside the “Hidden Story.zip”. I uploaded this text file to “TinyUpload.com” so you could compare it to your zip file file’s contents, because I was trying to figure out how you got an exe file.

                The “Hidden Story.zip” was uploaded to “Mega.co.nz” by “Scientology Books and Media”. “Hidden Story.zip” has all the files generated by “HTTrack Website Copier”, which is a nice open source program which I use (it also has a Mac OSX version). As I stated in my first comment, to start it, open the “index.html”. Do not open “The Hidden Story of Scientology.whtt”. (“.wtf extension” :-) )

                By the way, “Playing Dirty.zip” can be downloaded from here. Also, to start it, open the “index.html”. (Do not open the “Playing Dirty.whtt”).

                • Thanks MaBu.

                  Got it figured out. Was the .wtf extension that threw me off 😉

                  The html index works fine. Also copied the PD zip. Don’t worry really had no intention of launching HTTrack since all it would do was launch Terminal which would then say WTF? :)

                  Seems it’s just us chickens on the blog. I’m waiting with bated breath for Jim to release part II of his opus.

    • Hi Ingrid,

      Good to see you here and welcome.

      Yes Hidden Story (link posted by MaBu) is an excellent read and so is Playing Dirty which you can read on line here:


      There is also a link I posted earlier that I feel is important which exposes CIA and MI6’s skullduggery and complicity in trying to destroy the subject that was eventually obtained by the GO through the FOIA after many efforts to suppress the data “in the interest of National Security”:


      Regarding Marty and Mike. The fact is they started out defending the Ol’man and then basically snapped terminals with the “carping critics” that frequent their respective blogs. Quite a number who are probably L1 R/Sers IMHO.

      Also while I’m posting this I’d just like to make you and everyone else aware of an operation that I observed back when I was lurking on ARS and that is to equate Miscavige to Ron saying that as his heir apparent he is just doing a continuance of some kind which is total BS but something the misinformed and the uninformed drink up like Koolaid. Funny how they accuse anyone else who doesn’t have their perverted perspective on the founder and the subject of being “Koolaid drinkers”. A term derived from the murder/suicide of Jim Jones’ People’s Temple in Guyana where the members allegedly drank cyanide laced Koolaid but the fact is that many died of gun shot wounds, strangulation and exposure but I digress…..

      Myself when I think of “Koolaid Drinkers” I think of Ken Kesey’s Further Bus and the Electric Koolaid Acid Test with the LSD gratuitously supplied by CIA and that the real “Koolaid drinkers” are not suicidal but are in fact so out of touch with reality that they seem like they are on some kinda of acid trip which seems from my perspective to describe many of the so called “critics” of Scientology which includes Marty and to a degree Mike’s distorted perception of what went down during that period of time.

      I know a different definition from the agreed upon definition of the term but one I find extremely workable 😉

  11. Tom M

    Robin, you say that you have a problem with ex-Int Staff members having a fixation about DM. Let me clue you in on something here: Ex-Int staff who are still railing against DM are, for the most part, super gung-ho, let’s-get- the-show-on-the-road Operating Thetans who really understood the economics of what it would take to clear this mudbowl we are on. These people cared a lot about what we were doing and wanted to (and still want to) salvage mankind.
    We were all abused and harangued and pretty much forced out of the game by an SP who IS STILL THERE RUINING SCIENTOLOGY AND SUPPRESSING SCIENTOLOGY and it is like a thorn in our side that won’t go away. Fixate? You bet. DM is dug himself in deeper than a Tennessee Woodtick and is not about to give up. We need to get rid of him. None of us have figured out how to do it. The ones who were supposed to lead us to the promised land (M&M) turned out to be real duds and super disappointments. A couple of world class losers.
    Fixate? You bet. Because of DM is driving HBO down on us all and they are about to destroy Scientology once and for all. You can bet that his majesty is going to go into combat mode with HBO’s 160 attorneys and make maters even worse. He’s probably going to invoke his favorite handling and get his juniors to spit in HBO execs faces.
    DM is NOT JUST an annoyance, he is a real Present Time Problem of magnitude. What he does is makes enemies of Scientology on a daily basis. His favorite stat is “# of people who hate Scientology”. It must be his favorite stat because that’s the only one he has that’s in affluence going into power.
    I, for one, am not going to stop until I figure out how to get this whole-track SP out of the Church. If worse comes to worse I will use my earlier training to do it, but by God, I will do it.
    I agree that bitching about him doesn’t do a lot of good other than to run out the suppression. Maybe the reason it isn’t running out is because a) whole track earlier similars or b) PTSness Type I which needs to be handled too. But its got to be done. The guys that tried to get rid of him (M&M) lost horribly. They got harassed a bit and gave up. If they were really interested in getting DM out of there and Scn back on the rails, they would have handled the harassment and organized the activity up. But they aren’t gung-ho, they are egoists.
    I read a book a couple of years ago (true story) where a reverend had a son who’s appendix burst and almost died on the operating table. Afterwards the little boy said that he had gone to heaven during his operation and saw angels and Jesus and so forth. The priest and the rest of the congregation couldn’t handle the fact that someone, albeit his own son, finally saw what they were always talking about in Church. The entire congregation go so keyed in over the fact that this little kid was telling them about stuff that only those who went to heaven or God would know. Then a girl in Europe had the same visions the little boy did and this really sent them all spinning. After months of freaking out they all came to grips with the fact that “Heaven is Real” and had real personal religious changes. That was the name of the book and when they saw that heaven was real, it really shook their stable datums and forced them all into being Christians for real.
    Same applies here. Scientology is Real. And an SP is running it into the ground – that’s real too.

    ML Tom

    • Hear Hear Tom. Unfortunately M and M were so complicit in the suppression that it was too much for them to confront-so they took the “easy” route out and became victims and now cater to the victim. A Scientologist is not a victim. And then they laughingly became “victims” of the Tech. Unbelievable and unforgivable!!!If they had at least led towards getting into session and using the tech we would be much further ahead. A flourishing field out here would have been an incredible threat. But no, now it is very fragmented ( divide and conquer) and once again DM gets a “win.”
      I think a real effort to confront exactly what it would take to bring down DM is very needed. There is tech on it! I was told of an interesting book by Phillip Ackerman, ” A Force More Powerful” on how to take down a dictator, which I am looking into. Of course, Ron has plenty of good tech in this area.

      • Ingrid,

        There’s been several times I’ve offered to give Marty and Mike a session. Yet it seems that they like to wear their aberrations as a badge of honor like a lot of these so called critics “revel” in being called “SPs” in fact they used to have an award on ARS for who was considered the most Suppressive. An award that went to such loonie tunes as St. Jerry Armstrong (the guy who was exposed as a plant working for LAPD’s CID) Arnie Lerma (the one who posted the “Fishman Affidavit” on the internet which contained Confidential Data) the late Robert Vaughn Young (who worked as a consultant on behalf of the “Lisa McPherson Trust”) Roger Gonnet (who worked closely with CAN before it was taken over by the Church and later Germany’s OPC) and other such luminaries.

        Marty may or may not have started off with good intentions but as far as I’m concerned is nothing but a source of disinformation. Especially when he picks apart the Tech in his screed “What is Wrong with Scientology” claiming such things as there are no levels beyond OT VIII and that Ron was going to cancel OT III. Then coming out with his later opus “Scientology Warrior” where he says definitively that Michael Meisner wasn’t a plant and was merely some “poor disillusioned soul”.

        Anyway if you read the following you will see how M&M have flowed power and as they now continue to flow power to Miscavige by claiming he is the sole source of Scientology’s destruction:


        The fact is that they to a great degree were the Frankensteins that created the monster Miscavige and were in fact the Men behind the Man behind Scientology.

        • Robin, they went from claiming Miscavige the sole source to Ron as the “real” source of the destruction with their mantra of ‘Scientology has the seeds of it’s own destruction” and that Miscavige is simply a product of the tech- thats how nutty they have gotten. If they had stuck with Miscavige as the target we would all be further along!

          • Ingrid,

            Personally I’m not big on using other tech to handle the scene with Scientology. To me this is like using other tech to handle a PC. This includes using tech from the “Psychopath Next Store” (which Steve, Marty, Mike amen corner rave about as some tech on PTS and SPs that Ron somehow missed) or using the Stockholm Syndrome or the Milgram Experiment or….to explain what happened to the Church.

            As far as I’m concerned you handle Scientology with Scientology. There are plenty of references in the OEC and Tech Vols. Not to mention lectures , REDs, GO Directives, Sec EDs, Freedom and Auditor Magazine Articles written specifically by Ron to cover what is going on now and like a PC who continues not to make any or appreciable gains. The reason for it is not because of some “new tech” but because that Standard Tech wasn’t applied.

            Much of what Miscavige and his coconspirators is doing is covered in the PDC lectures which includes the quote you sent me and in the lecture What Scientology is Doing from the Spirit of Man Congresses. It’s not like this sort of thing hasn’t happened before. The only difference was that Ron or the GO were there to prevent such a hostile takeover of the subject.

            CST was established under Trust B to prevent this from occurring but little attention was given to finding Trustees who were qualified under its articles. So now the hat that was never worn by CST has been given to us.

            This is the way I see it.

            Seems we’re the only ones right now applying Standard Tech. The Church and others like Marty and Mike for example are nothing but a bunch of squirrels promoting other tech like the Psychopath Next Store and using the Stockholm Syndrome and Milgram to justify their own overts as far as I’m concerned.

            Personally I don’t feel there is anything wrong with being better informed but you use Scientology to handle Scientology. Not some other tech like for example Message to Garcia.

            • Robin-I want to validate you as a tech terminal and you certainly are good at pointing out outnesses. There is a whole organization to consider. There is a dept 20 which has it’s own tech, like div4 has it’s tech.I’m not an expert in this department and I don’t see you as one either.
              Tom is an expert on security. My understanding is there is tech that Ron developed called rollback which is designed to gather up the data of the enemy lines and destructive actions. The point is to trace it back to a single person so you get the correct source. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t other nefarious characters.j Ron was always into the correct target.Now you have something to handle as opposed to some nebulous all over the place target. A rollback of sorts has been done in the field with all the revelatory info leading to DM. There have been SPs galore on Scientology lines,but DM is the source of so much of what we are having problems with by a huge general consensus and he is continuing to be in a very powerful position to wreak tons of havoc. Mayo and Bill Franks aren’t around like DM!!Handling them isn’t going to do much.
              To say it isn’t DM is to me an apathy. It is what happened to Marty-he went into apathy after failing to handle DM and he said the problem really isn’t DM!!? Its Ron or whatever-it boils down to The Why is god! Here are a few LRH quotes taken from from 1st ACC, Lecture 19, Disc 21, entitled, “Subjective Processes, Perimeter Processing (Continued):”

              “This is the biggest trick that your real entheta boys use. They get people to go around admitting that they can’t do anything about things.” (Transcript p. 255.)

              “The definition of invalidation is making somebody realize he can’t do something about it.” (Transcript p. 257.)

              “Insanity, then, would be that condition pursuant to the consideration of the individual that he is in a dangerous environment, so dangerous that it cannot ever be coped with, now or in the future, and probably in the belief that he’d never coped with it. See, that would be the complete, gone apathy with the whole thing.” (Transcript p. 251)

              Also on using other tech-Ron did-Les Dane. I think when you use other tech than Scientology one needs to check how well it aligns with Scientology tech for it’s efficacy.

              • Ingrid,

                Ron tapped Les for BLS because there was really no tech developed on Selling Scientology. BTW RB is very precise tech and doesn’t include meandering or speculating about what Dave is doing. Also I am not talking about past SPs and PTSes but those who are currently active inside and outside the Organization. Many of them listed on the Patron Roles. Others who are hidden within the Organization.

                My view if it was all Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave’s fault and if he was the only SP the charge would have long since blown. As far I’m concerned just nattering about Dave and refusing to look beyond that *is* apathy.

                Regarding Marty and Mike all they did was CYA Dave while they were in the SO. The Man Behind Scientology is basically Marty and Mike covering up lying for Dave and all his indiscretions. On the false premise maybe that they were “flowing power” to a “power” or whatever twisted think they were thinking at the time.

                • I’m not nattering about DM and I don’t think many on this blog are.

                  • And I don’t have any real charge on him anymore-I do alot of solo auditing. That doesn’t lessen him as the current key SP of my religion.

                    • I’m not saying that he isn’t a key SP. All I’m saying is that he is not the only SP. There is no way that Miscavige got to where he is on his own. Nor is he able remain in that position without support of some kind even if it is only by agreement.

                      Besides there are other factors that are more basic than Miscavige. He is as I’ve written before just an aberated stable datum. The embodiment and personification of a Service Fac.

                      The main factor that will handle him and any of his ilk is application of the correct technology which includes not conflating whys with who-theres and making anyone who doesn’t accept their *item* wrong.

      • Sorry the name is Peter Ackerman

    • Tom,

      As far as I’m concerned he’s not the only SP and there are others inside and outside the organization who are just as active. As I wrote you fixate on Miscavige and it really accomplishes little as far as I see but blame, shame and regret. Heavy on the blame which in my opinion gives Miscavige more power than he deserves.

      Regarding HBO and their “doc” based on Wright’s book I doubt will do very little to influence public opinion. He wrote the Looming Tower and it was even made into a Nova special for PBS. Yet it had very little effect on public opinion in general regarding 911. In fact quite the opposite since more Americans now are convinced there is more to the story than the Government Approved Conspiracy Theory.

      Same with their efforts to shut down any effort to shut down any speculation about a conspiracy behind Kennedy’s assassination with Posner’s book Case Closed.

      Fact is I’ve seen worse. Especially after the People’s Temple murder/suicides there was an effort to conflate other “fringe””sects” and “cults” including Scientology with Jim Jones’ group which was the beginning the AFF and later CAN.

      In my opinion the power of the vaunted media is highly overrated. Especially HBO who like other premium channels has taken a hit with the advent of Roku, Apple TV, Hulu, Google and other Internet Media providers. Cable is pretty much dead and “Going Clear” is one of HBO’s last gasps which is based on a poorly written tome that good people like Marg Lake and others who have done some honest research have already dead agented.

      Me I’m not going to wring my hands or gnash my teeth over it. Nor I’m I going to get too upset over OSA’s ineffective and incompetent “handling”.

      You can “fixate” on Miscavige if you like but from my point of view there are other reasons that the Church has gone down this road to perdition.

    • Tom,

      BTW I don’t believe that “(t)he guys that tried to get rid of him (M&M) lost horribly. They got harassed a bit and gave up. If they were really interested in getting DM out of there and Scn back on the rails, they would have handled the harassment and organized the activity up. But they aren’t gung-ho, they are egoists.”

      Personally I don’t think they had any intention to remove Miscavige from post. In fact they supported him to a greater or lesser degree right up until the point they blew. Neither of them applied Orders Query of or Orders Illegal and Cross.

      As far as I’m concerned they are just as culpable as those Nazis who tried to claim what has become known as the Nuremberg “defense”.

      They acted just like Ron said they would under the policy on Blow Offs.

      • Tom M

        Well Robin, thanks be: All this time I thought there was something wrong with an SP running Scientology into the ground. Apparently you don’t think there is.

        I don’t know if you get out often but if you do happen to step out of your ivory tower go ahead and ask people what they think about Scientology right now – not the Church of, but Scientology. The public opinion from the days that (we in Management) had Scientology delivery rocking (in the early 80’s) has crashed. People don’t think too highly of Scientology right now. But according to you, we shouldn’t worry about that DM is doing that to Scientology because that would be fixating. Glad you weren’t running the USA when Hitler was doing his thing.

        I am a man of action. I am actually working on how to get this guy out of there. I do actual physical universe actions, Robin. There’s plenty of policy and takes and tech on what is going on. But this problem is in the legal arena.

        You do point out quite often that us ex-Int staff “fixate” on DM and you actually scold us for it. What do you care? I deliver a lot. We ex-Int staff are delivering. We’re doing things to rebuilt it. I have a meeting set up at my place this afternoon with a couple more new folks wanting delivery. What’s your beef? You like the little guy ripping Scientology apart?

        Or am I really just making this up and there is no problem?

        Back over to you. Let’s hear your plan and what you are actually doing in the physical universe.

        ML Tom

        • “Well Robin, thanks be: All this time I thought there was something wrong with an SP running Scientology into the ground. Apparently you don’t think there is.”

          Riiiight and where did I give this impression Tom?

          “I don’t know if you get out often but if you do happen to step out of your ivory tower go ahead and ask people what they think about Scientology right now – not the Church of, but Scientology.”

          Most people I’ve talked to don’t even know what Scientology is and don’t read Ortega’s blog or have read the book Going Clear or watch HBO.

          “The public opinion from the days that (we in Management) had Scientology delivery rocking (in the early 80’s) has crashed. People don’t think too highly of Scientology right now. But according to you, we shouldn’t worry about that DM is doing that to Scientology because that would be fixating. Glad you weren’t running the USA when Hitler was doing his thing.”

          Oh please.

          Seems to me that you have a confusion between the subject and the organization.

          The Organization that is the the Government Approved 501 c iii organization calling itself “The Church of Scientology” and the religion or philosophy are two different things.

          “I am a man of action. I am actually working on how to get this guy out of there. I do actual physical universe actions, Robin. There’s plenty of policy and takes and tech on what is going on. But this problem is in the legal arena.”

          Have you considered the possibility that if this so called “problem” doesn’t blow by inspection then there is a lie associated to it?

          Also that all opp terming this “problem” does is create mass.

          Both Marty and Mike are perfect examples of how this approach has failed.

          “You do point out quite often that us ex-Int staff “fixate” on DM and you actually scold us for it. What do you care?”

          I care when I see no TA on the action and idiotic “solutions” like signing petitions and sending them to the DOJ expecting that they will take any effective action.

          And when former Int-Execs who were formerly mixing it up with this SP, blindly following his illegal and destructive orders, then decide to leave and then accuse anyone who says that there may a broader game in play according to various policies, directives and lectures written by Ron of being some OSA op of some kind or do not care because they don’t share their same obsession with their favorite bette noir.

          As far as I’m concerned it is just another form of *Authoritarianism*.

          “I deliver a lot. We ex-Int staff are delivering. We’re doing things to rebuilt it. I have a meeting set up at my place this afternoon with a couple more new folks wanting delivery. What’s your beef? You like the little guy ripping Scientology apart?”

          The fact is that Dave is not the only one who is ripping Scientology apart. Yet because you are so fixated on him you can’t see this.

          Take for example Marty and Mike who as far as I’m concerned have gone over to the enemy and are promoting enemy lines like it was Ron who ordered the take down of the Mission Network or such BS as Miscavige received more personal communications from the Ol’man than anyone with the exception of Mary Sue.

          And I audit PCs and Pre OTs practically every day while others are wringing there hands and gnashing their teeth about some HBO special which as far as I’m concerned will have zero influence.

          “Or am I really just making this up and there is no problem?”

          Why don’t you and your int buddies ask yourselves why this problem persists?

          I mean there was a point you could have done something effective about it by applying policy and comm eveing “the SP”‘s sorry ass but as I have seen. Most people at Int did *nothing*. Now that they’re out seem to want to harangue the field about how eeeeeviiiiil Miscavige is.

          Man the reports I wrote on the off policy and out tech that was rampant in the organization would have fit into a big tractor trailer and you know was running interference for El Capo?

          Sea Org members from Int which proves to me that it wasn’t just one man but a CONSPIRACY.

          conspiracy |kənˈspirəsē|
          noun (pl. conspiracies)
          a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful: a conspiracy to destroy the government.
          (or in this case Scientology)
          • the action of plotting or conspiring: they were cleared of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.

          Not the action of one individual.

          “Back over to you. Let’s hear your plan and what you are actually doing in the physical universe.”

          I audit people. What do you do?

          • You keep bringing up blowing by inspection in reference to DM. This is an actual person in the PU. He is not just a picture in someone’s mind. Even Ron says handling sits in the PU can take awhile. You don’t just abandon a program-you complete it!!

            • ingrid,

              Sure if there was any actual “program” to handle Miscavige other than continually *natter* about him under the guise of quote exposing his crimes unquote which is what Marty and Mike continually do as quote whistle blowers unquote which in my opinion has done more harm than good by eliciting the “help” of media outlets like Ortega’s “Blog” who has the audacity to say that Ron is the “number one” reason for Scientology’s troubles.

              Give me a fuckin’ break!

              Also you’d be amazed at the power of the tech in handling things in the Physical Universe. Try running Problems of Comparable Magnitude or doing an SP Rundown. I find that many who claim that one must handle things exclusively in the Physical Universe are unaware of the power of the Tech. Personally I’ve seen many things that would qualify as miracles.

              That said there are programs that already exist which were written by the Ol’man himself that were never completed like for example Snow White which was based on the policy on False Reports.

              BTW I personally contacted the CIA to find out what they had on Scientology which wasn’t in their “Electronic Reading Room” and what I received was very interesting.

              Then there is the Scientology Reform Program that was totally abandoned by the current management when they seized control which canceled Disconnection and abolished Sec Checks. Both actions the Church seems to have gone into overdrive.

              M&M could have been very helpful in demanding that the Church *Reform* but instead all they’ve done as natter and play some weird Mad Magazine like game of Spy vs Spy with OSA. I mean what does being chased around the crowded streets of LA by a beefy gang of PIs endangering the lives of non combatants have to do with reforming the organization?

              Maybe not SPs except in many of their actions but definitely egotists as Tom says.

              Especially Marty who as far as I’m concerned is a total *squirrel*. All you have to do is read his book What is Wrong with Scientology to know this as a *fact*.

              So much for the former IG RTC.

              As far as I’m concerned his credibility is sub-zero. Same with Mike who by allowing SPs like Allan Stanfield and Chuck Beauty plus many others from the ESMB, OCMB, ARS alumni has turned his blog into just another “natter board” of the same sick caliber of the afore mentioned.

              So what program are you referring to Ingrid. Are you referring to the one to discredit and invalidate the subject?

              Seems Marty and Mike with the help of their “friends” in the media are well on their way in accomplishing that.

              What more will this HBO special do?

              Nothing really in itself. But you can be sure it will be promoted authoritatively by M&M and those who don’t have any certainty on the tech themselves will be pushed over to the dark side.

              As far as the public in general. Nothing.

              How many years has there been bad press about Scientology?

              I’ve seen it at it’s worst as I wrote after the People’s Temple and the raids that followed GO 1361 and they really had no influence on the public in general. Those who believe everything that the Mocking Bird media churns out are not people you want on your lines anyway as far as I’m concerned. The people you want are those who want to improve their lives and don’t give a damn what the media says or are handled properly with the Dissem Drill and have a ruin they want to handle or have read the book Dianetics. Not the kind listed under Potential Sources of Trouble.

              In other words not the unable as defined in JOS 26 G.

              You want new public.

              First you clean up the muddy and dirty field that the orgs have created and then once these are handled you start handling the public in general.

              Not whine and natter about how eeeeviiiil Miscavige is like Mike and Marty. If I was auditing either of these guys I’d be asking for similar Os.

              As far as I understand this 3D engram involves all of us from multiple points of view and there are those of us who feel that there is a broader conspiracy than Miscavige alone.

              Aren’t our views just as relevant as it’s all Dave fault?

  12. Hi guys,

    Things seems to have slowed down here. So I thought I’d liven them up.

    Anyway I came across the following:


    This was a booklet handed out by Int Management circa early ’90’s and gave the “Command Channels”. In my opinion the Org Board was starting to go totally Byzantine and becoming so top heavy that it would eventually collapse under its own weight Miscavige or no Miscavige.

  13. Doggone It!

    I think what is important about running down this 3rd Dynamic engram is that the very first point of KSW is having the CORRECT technology.

    It’s quite apparent that the tech has been being subtly and ever so slowly perverted since at least sometime in the ’80s. In recent years, the changes have become blatant, for instance the unashamed redefinition of the term “Ideal Org.”

    And so we have the question, “What IS the correct technology?” looming more importantly every day. How far back do we have to go to be sure we’re getting the tech as LRH communicated it? At what point do we need to start becoming suspicious of the data being correct technology and not some shifted, twisted perversion of what Ron actually discovered?

    I’d like to thank Robin for pointing a finger towards Dave Mayo. I believe Mayo is part of this chain too, because there are so many outpoints surrounding his whole story.

    I think resolving this 3-D engram is vital to reverting currently “known” technology back to correct technology and thus recovering real Scientology for use.

    • Thanks Doggone It.

      Actually Ron says in the HCOB Tech Correction Round Up what is Standard Tech and what isn’t:

      What makes tech correct? When it doesn’t get results it is incorrect. When it gets the expected result it is correct.
      My own writings and researches are based wholly upon things that got and get results.
      When another, through misunderstood words or other reasons, “interprets” or changes the original tech, it has been the general experience that results are not obtained.

      Fortunately we are lucky to have most of the original material, unaltered by RTRC. Much of it has been stored at various websites and still available at such places as Amazon, Alibri, Abes Books, etc.

      As Ron says in Scientology Review:

      We bought an awful lot of time with the discovery of the exact nature of between lives implants and how it’s worked. Using this data it is possible to keep any Scientologist from ever getting another one of those implants. As the general course of living is therapeutic, it takes violent implants such as Earth people get at every death to keep people unaware of former lives and aberrated. Just by omitting those implants and using their reporting technology to keep in touch amongst ourselves, we would salvage the lot in a few hundred years in any event. Our data is too widely disseminated to be recollected and burned.

      Despite RTC’s efforts.

      Also on any HCOBs that have been revised by Mayo (in the earlier Vols it will say “Assisted by DM or Snr C/S Int) “Assisted by RTRC” apply the following:


      1. If it isn’t written it isn’t true.

      2. If it’s written, read it.

      3. Did the person who wrote it have the authority or know
      how to order it?

      4. If you can’t understand it, clarify it;

      5. If you can’t clarify it, clear the Mis-Us.

      6. If the Mis-Us won’t clear, query it.

      7. Has it been altered from the original?

      8. Get it validated as a correct, on-channel, on-policy,
      in-tech order.

      9. Only if it holds up this far, force others to read
      it and follow it.


      CANCEL IT!

      Hope this helps.


  14. I believe Tom is an experienced expert on security. I am very interested in the area and am studying it alot more diligently. So Tom, what tech, policies can be employed here in bringing down the dictator, DM that fits our situation?

    • Ingrid,

      I don’t say I’m an expert on security but in my opinion. The way you remove a dictator is by removing his source of power which is in Miscavige’s case is cease continue to forward the fiction being promoted by the Church and the Media that he is the leader of Scientology.

      There is no policy ever written by Ron or anyone else for that matter assigning the Chairman of the Board RTC the leadership of the Church of Scientology.

      Again I recommend reading the policy LRH Relationship to Orgs.

      Over to you Tom.

      • You are right, but the trick is you got to get people KNOWING that and once enough know, its over.

        • Exactly Ingrid.

          This is why disinformation peddlers like M&M do us a disservice by continuing to perpetrate and perpetuate the *lie* that Miscavige is the leader of the Church and that he is the only source of any action taken by the Church and fail to acknowledge the fact that there are other actors involved.

          For instance I know for a fact that the big push by CCHR Int against Prozac that brought us so much bad press by Time magazine was an action initiated by Matt Feshbach to drive the price of Eli Lilly’s stock down so they could short sell it and that Miscavige acting as “leader” supported it.

          This totally destructive program for “Ideal Orgs” was based on an Tom Cruise’s origination that his friends found Paris Org “down stat” which itself was based on advice from Bob Gray at H&K to make “Scientology Mainstream”.

          In my opinion aside from being a foul mouthed class A L1 RSer he is basically a product officer pushing through destructive programs on behalf of his “friends” in Government and various elitist factions within the Church. If he wasn’t his source of funding would have been depleted long ago and the Church would have been forced into bankruptcy under his false leadership.

  15. Speak of the devil or maybe just his willing henchman.

    Here’s some more disinfo coming from Mike who many claim is our brother in arms against the eeeeeviiiil Miscavige:


    There are many “conspiracy buffs”, “conspiracy theorists”, “crack pots” etc. who believe that the IRS runs the Church because Mead worked on a task force regarding Tax Exemption around the time the GO started into their fun and games AKA GO 1361.

    Personally I believe that theory is a bit far fetched. I mean what would the IRS want with the Church? More likely candidates would be the Intelligence Community but anyway. In my opinion they do exert undue influence on the Organization through the “Secret Closing Agreement” making “Thou shalt pay one’s taxes.” a new Church of Scientology commandment enforced by Sec Checking and culling from the fold anyone who is considered a “tax protester”.

    Anyway to prove that Mike is a disinfo specialist. All you got to do is quote him:

    “I know for a fact the people that originally granted scientology tax exemption (including to the IAS) would be disturbed by this. The IAS having taken over the church is exactly opposite to what they were assured would NOT be the case.”

    From what little I know from reading the Secret Closing Agreement:


    There were no such assurances. Asked for or given. Basically if you read it what the Church did was pay disputed back taxes then accept Tax Exemption as the “Scientology Religion” as opposed to the “Religion of Scientology” which are two different things but I will take up the difference at another time.

    Personally contrary to what Mike says. In my opinion this is exactly what the IRS wanted. Since such donations given to such pie in sky concepts as those forwarded by the IAS are exactly what the IRS wanted under IRC 501 Ciii since anyone contributing or donating to such an organization must not expect a tangible benefit of any kind which is covered under the following publication issued by Dave’s “friends” at the IRS:


    All you have to do is look at other organizations who have different levels of charitable donations just like the Church currently has:


    Anyway this could be part of the reason that Miscavige dismantled the exec structure since the Church after “winning the war” and being able to receive Tax Deductible donations no longer needed to devote its time to actually servicing the public and giving them a valuable exchange of any kind.

    Something to consider.

  16. All:

    There was a great deal of concern on the MS2 blog about running out third dynamic engrams and what horrible things might happen if we did. I, for one, was unconcerned about any problems arising. Yet here we are, having taken a first step in this direction, and look what’s occurred. I see a lot of HE&R, mostly on whether Miscavige acted alone or had help, which wasn’t even the subject of this blog post. There was concern that others from outside MS2’s membership would come in and mess the place up. But this HE&R has been generated entirely internally.

    I understand the phenomenon of confusion blowing off in the face of order (and HE&R blowing off at the initial address of a charged area). And perhaps that’s what we have here.

    But I would invite those here to step back and simply re-assess. Have you made your point? (Not, did people accept your point? That’s a whole other issue and not one you can control.) If you’ve sustained an ARCX from this conversation, consider getting an ARCX assessment. Further yammering on the subject won’t help you near as much as simply utilizing the ARCX tech and getting it actually handled.


    • All:

      “There was a great deal of concern on the MS2 blog about running out third dynamic engrams and what horrible things might happen if we did. I, for one, was unconcerned about any problems arising. Yet here we are, having taken a first step in this direction, and look what’s occurred. I see a lot of HE&R, mostly on whether Miscavige acted alone or had help, which wasn’t even the subject of this blog post. There was concern that others from outside MS2’s membership would come in and mess the place up. But this HE&R has been generated entirely internally.”

      Paul I appreciate your concern but as you can see running engrams ain’t pretty.

      Lana wisely figured there’d be a dust up, Donnybrook or bar room brawl which is why we are over here instead of the main blog.

      Again wise choice.

      I suggest taking notes if you wish and try staying out of the way of any flying bottles or chairs 😉

      IMHO whether Miscavige acted alone or was part of a broader conspiracy is a valid point. Obviously from the viewpoint of many who were at the Int Base. He acted alone.

      From my viewpoint from those of us in the perimeter and the viewpoint of other researchers he acted as part of a broader conspiracy to corrupt the Organization and the subject just as Ron has said would happen in various policies, directives and lectures going back to the PDC.

      Also as I wrote earlier I felt that the incident that Lana presented to run was late on the chain. So I presented what I felt was an earlier similar incident.

      “I understand the phenomenon of confusion blowing off in the face of order (and HE&R blowing off at the initial address of a charged area). And perhaps that’s what we have here.”

      Roger that :)

      “But I would invite those here to step back and simply re-assess. Have you made your point? (Not, did people accept your point? That’s a whole other issue and not one you can control.) If you’ve sustained an ARCX from this conversation, consider getting an ARCX assessment. Further yammering on the subject won’t help you near as much as simply utilizing the ARCX tech and getting it actually handled.”

      I’ve had much worse debates with Marty and Mike personally about the scene.

      I’m also a veteran of the alt. religion scientology wars:


      Mostly as a “lurker” but sometimes as an active participant with such luminaries as Arnie Lermer, Gerry Armstrong, Roger Gonnet and others in various flame wars.

      So this lil’ altercation between Tom and me is nothing in comparison to some low life geek on usenet trying to track your IP or having your phone tapped or being followed by a seemingly innocuous white van or being personally “invited” by upper management to receive some good ol’ RB and followed by a lil’ TRD because I allegedly “Black PRed” them by writing reports per the PL Staff Member Reports.

      Personally I think I can handle the strain.

      Besides what does Ron say about communication in Dns 55?


      • Robin:

        FWIW, I’m not in the least bit squeamish or offended by traffic like this. And I was and am easily capable of tangling with the best of them. I dealt with traffic like this as a moderator. And my opinion of the traffic at the time was approximately the same as my opinion of this current traffic. Except that now the traffic is amongst Scientologists.


        • Exactly Paul.

          Scientologists with distinctly different points of view. Fortunately we can agree on Standard Tech and Policy 😉

          Unlike other Blogs I’ve been to which seem to be an Amen Corner of some kind.

  17. Tom M

    Robin and Paul. Lana set up this blog and it is called, believe it or not, “3D Engrams”. She set it up for the purpose of running out 3D Engrams and keeping the HE^R off the regular blog. Some Scientologist have engrams on the 3D and are going to want to run them out, if they wish. It is okay to say what they want to say and especially without your inval.

    Robin, you say you are an auditor, but I see a lot of judgment and inval/eval from you on posters – especially if they are “ex-Int” staff. Almost like you were prejudice towards “ex-int staff”. Suppose you were auditing, an “ex-int staff and he or she were fixated on a terminal. Would you audit him on it or invalidate him on it and tell him he is “fixated”? I, myself, would probably handle with PTS handling. And this is why your generality of ex-Int staff kinda pisses me off. You’ve said it way too many times over the last several months and this time I raised my head and went “hmmm”. Especially because this is a 3D engram blog. You were on it (the first poster) like a rat on a Cheeto.

    So leave people who post here alone if they want to post something about DM. Many people are PTS to him – especially the ones who are nearest to him at the end. Maybe they need to itsa. You have no right to cut across itsa on this blog.

    And lastly – You weren’t there, so fuggoff.

    ML Tom

    ML Tom

    • Ditto Tom-this blog morphed into “arguing with Robin.”

      • “Ditto Tom-this blog morphed into ‘arguing with Robin.'”

        Honestly that wasn’t my intention but I agree that maybe Robert’s Rules of Order should be applied here instead of the wild west dust up and gun fight me and Tom are having.

        My suggestion is that we drop the personal accusations and ad hominem attacks with the suggestion that I or anyone who disagree with the lone Miscavige premise must have some ulterior motive of some kind or is working for OSA and deal exclusively with facts.

        Also I apologize to anyone I riled by saying they are “fixated” on Miscavige. My bad.

        However I expect the same courtesy and that it not be implied that I am some kind of “crack pot” or “conspiracy theorist” just because I have a different point of view on the matter.

    • “Robin and Paul. Lana set up this blog and it is called, believe it or not, “3D Engrams”. She set it up for the purpose of running out 3D Engrams and keeping the HE^R off the regular blog. Some Scientologist have engrams on the 3D and are going to want to run them out, if they wish. It is okay to say what they want to say and especially without your inval.”

      My inval. What about yours?

      “Robin, you say you are an auditor, but I see a lot of judgment and inval/eval from you on posters – especially if they are “ex-Int” staff. Almost like you were prejudice towards “ex-int staff”. Suppose you were auditing, an “ex-int staff and he or she were fixated on a terminal. Would you audit him on it or invalidate him on it and tell him he is “fixated”?”

      I don’t say I’m an auditor but audited thousands of hours in several HGCs and in the Field plus have the Certs pre GAT to prove it.

      What about you Tom?

      Also I’m not auditing you. I’m debating with you. A debate you appear to be losing because of your ad hominem attacks.

      Another thing what I would do in session and what I do here are two different things.

      Here I have no obligation to follow the auditors code. Especially if someone like you is attacking me or trying to impugn my character or make the following paranoid assertions.

      I suggest you listen to the Lecture 5506C06 ASMC-14 The Game Called Man.

      “I, myself, would probably handle with PTS handling. And this is why your generality of ex-Int staff kinda pisses me off. You’ve said it way too many times over the last several months and this time I raised my head and went “hmmm”. Especially because this is a 3D engram blog. You were on it (the first poster) like a rat on a Cheeto.”

      Of course I was since I promoted the idea and I myself had a lot of BPC on the arrogance of *some* former Int staff like Marty and Mike for example who like to talk down to anyone who wasn’t there.

      What is so suspicious about that?

      Also I believed that I had to make the point that the Int Base was not the center of the universe of Scientology as Marty and Mike claim and that there were many things occurring outside its perimeter.

      “So leave people who post here alone if they want to post something about DM. Many people are PTS to him – especially the ones who are nearest to him at the end. Maybe they need to itsa. You have no right to cut across itsa on this blog.”

      Hey I have nothing against posting all you want about dear Dave. Just as long as *you* don’t try to force him on me as the only item and the only reason that the Church of Scientology is so fucked up.

      Since I don’t believe that is true.

      “And lastly – You weren’t there, so fuggoff.”

      Oh really?

      Does that mean because someone wasn’t there they are not allowed to have an opinion?

      Limits the conversation somewhat doesn’t it?

      To close I’ll quote Woody Allen.

      ‘Go be fruitful and multiply’


  18. BTW Tom.

    I’d just like to add that according to the E&J Codes invalidation of Auditors is considered a suppressive act.

    Not to mention what Lana posted on MS2 about Auditor Invalidation.

    I thought I’d point this out since you seem to be attempting to assess my skill as an auditor by what I say on this blog.

  19. Jim Logan

    I’ve been offline since last week so I missed all this :-)

    I’ve synopserized the comments, and have a comm on the topic, DM or conspiracy of SMERSH thing.

    Robin, my first-hand observations of the Int Base, Scientology as a whole, under DM can best be stated as “observation of a real live Suppressive Person in-charge of Scientology”.

    So, take all the issues written from PAB 13 say, up to the various mid 60s policies and bulletins and tapes on how an SP operates, all the indicators, the machinations, the reversals, the subtle and not so subtle actions in Unmock, cause Withdraw from, and Stop, all the generalities of handling with a “group”, and not directly making it seem as if the generality of the group was weighing down on individuals, and so on – THE INDICATORS AND ACTIONS OF A REAL SP. All of them summarized and described in Scientology Tech and Policy.
    ylence in defense of themselves. It IS what LRH describes.

    It’s even worse when the SP has Scientology to fuck with people. Way, way worse. He fucks with their purposes, the reality of the truth that Scientology actually is, the hopes, the wins, the real help and its betrayals at literally, almost every turn. It’s that kind of suppression we’re talking about.

    If you take examples like the STASI, the SS/Gestapo, in those places, or SMERSH in Stalin’s Russia during and after WWII, and can envision those scenes and the insanity, the fear, the dramatizations, the introversions, the betrayals and the lowest of the scale in terms of behaviours, then you get what it was and is like at the Int Base, and now spread far and wide, BY David Miscavige and his ilk, former and present.

    It is enough to make the Departure we witness. It doesn’t need somebody steering him. HE, as a real SP, with his knacks, and his tricks, and his tactics and clever means, is enough. It is more than enough.

    I can’t say this with enough sincerity – and with an educated, experienced, first hand observation in this right now lifetime – A real SP, at the helm, as a total dictator, totalitarian despot prick, IS more than enough Bank to give us what we have.

    Perhaps, in the absence of direct this lifetime experience with this type of thing, at this order of magnitude, can be assisted by simple recall, and add to it, permeation and approximation of the scene as an OT view, and you’ll get what it is we that were there are trying to express to you.

  20. Jim Logan

    Sorry, it seems a typo and missing piece of a sentence is in the above. Don’t recall what it was so just put there some more of the same on policy and tech of SPs.

    Also, Robin, I really want to get across to you that in terms of the logic of adding it all up, applying the Data Series to this scene, consider the fact that if the outpoints are indeed explained by the String Pull down to an area, without bias or lack of view, then one is on the right track.

    This String Pull that we are talking about has two threads; DM as SP (and ALL of the phenomena related to it covered in the various PLs and issues on how and what a real SP can and does do) or Alphabet Orgs infiltrated and run DM.

    Which one leads to the real Why we have the scene we do?

    I can credit, and have examined the one you have suggested. It doesn’t add up (and that’s about all there is to say, instead of going back over each and every avenue that dead ended at this point). DM as SP, well, that one goes down and keeps going to more General Sherman Tanks laid at that doorstep than any other. Not a “who/where”, but a deeper and simpler statement of the Sit – how did all those people there have this occur and not see it, nor deal with it – i.e., “An real, honest to badness, Suppressive Person, with an “intelligence” level necessary to accomplish his purps, managed to take over Scientology”.

    How and therefore the “why” for this Departure from the Ideal Scene, if you’d care to finish the DS Proper Format and Correct Action steps, is something positive. A person can do it themselves without any formality. I can express it very simply by saying that there weren’t enough really well trained and experienced with this sort of thing, and incredulous to it, to deal with it, when they had the power to do so (my wife Annie a case in point.)

    There are now. That’s us. And as Tom M says, we’re working to come up with the simple Bright Idea on how to handle this thing, daily. It’s going to happen.

    In the meantime, we deliver as that’s exactly what LRH did when the same sort of thing hit his lines. We are catching up.

    Misdirecting to CIA shadow people running DM isn’t part of the reality. NO offense to those guys :-)

    • Jim,

      I never have disputed the fact that Miscavige is an SP. All I am pointing out that the world of Scientology extends beyond the Int base and David Miscavige which is not a deflection or “misdirection”.

      Also I never said that anyone from any alphabet agency was directly running Miscavige. In fact you will remember that I said *if* he was acting on someone’s behalf he would likely be an unwitting agent. As he *is* accomplishing many of the objectives that Ron laid out in A Working Theory, Notes on Smersh and Conference on Intel plus other GO Dirs. From my point of view this is no accident. Nor is the fact that he is being supported financially by various Patrons who themselves have connections to the Intelligence Community.

      Actually I’ve researched the area personally and found various documented links going back to our friends on the dark side.

      Of course we don’t have to Roll Back to every possible plant once Miscavige is out of the way i.e. removed from his false post as “Leader ” of Scientology and standard org form and policy are applied and Standard Tech is in we don’t have to worry about them as they will either get handled or blow.

      Having written this. In my opinion it is not safe to ignore outside influence as covered in Field Ethics and the earlier Directives mentioned.

  21. Tom M

    Here’s the point, Robin., you can comment on anything. But you cannot assert about something you have little reality on. I mean, you can, but your really can’t. Sure, you can comment on “all ex-int staff” but you cannot assert you are right about what you are commenting on because you don’t have all of the data. LRH said that the armchair quarterback can be dreadfully unreal. And in Data Series 12 LRH says “Seeing something wrong without seeking to correct it degenerates into mere faultfinding and natter.” That would mean getting down to what is bugging these ex-Int Staff, not battoing back their originations.

    I’m not looking for a fight here, I’m just defending this blog. Lana put this here so people can vent about 3D engrams, not get attacked for wanting to vent. Keep it a safe place where that can happen, please.

    ML Tom

    • Tom,

      I’m not looking for a fight either. But as you can see I have a button on arrogant and self righteous (not anyone on this board 😉 ) Int Staff who assert they have all the answers and who say Ron said this or that or did this or that when I know for a fact that much of what he says is a blatant lie.

      Example is Mike saying that Ron ordered the Mission starter packages when we both know that it was Miscavige’s (or whoever was advising him possibly Broeker or maybe even Rinder himself) “bright idea” when he was the COB ASI. Along with his or their “bright idea” to force the Orgs to buy unneeded book stocks.

      In fact I asked him personally when he made the outrageous claim that Miscavige was the runner up on receiving more personal communications from the Ol’man next to Mary Sue. If it was possible that many if not most of these so called communications could have been forgeries.

      A possibility since the mysteriously silent Pat Broeker seems to be pretty much on the QT about his participation as one of Ron’s aides who was actually the individual who communicated directly to the so called “Special Project”.

      BTW another interesting thing about Broeker is that he spent some time in Eastern Europe in the FSU after his departure from the Church which at the time he was there was an area of quite a lot of CIA activity. I’d say that would be an interesting string to pull at some point.

      It is definitely an out point.

      Anyway labeling Miscavige as a why defies what I have read in the Data Series. Aside from the fact that it is a who-there. True he is an SP but he is not the *only* SP to mess with the Organization. As far as I’m concerned he is an ethics why which is covered in DS 42R.

      Now don’t get all up in arms when I say this because it may not necessarily be true and is only based on my own *personal* observation but a lot of the effort to make Miscavige the “why” in my opinion seems to be a personal vendetta.

      The guy made yours and many others lives miserable and in many cases is an SP item. Not the SP item since why bother having 3 S&Ds or for that matter a full PTS RD if there was only one PTS item on most cases who are PTS and don’t recover after the correct SP is found.

      As far as I’ve seen guys like Dan, Steve, Mike and Marty are shouting to the rafters that Miscavige is “the SP” and claim that this resolved the scene for them etc., etc.. Yet look at these guys. Would you consider these guys no longer PTS? I certainly wouldn’t.

      Also claiming Miscavige as the “why” (not the ethics why which he probably is. At least as far as the Int Base is concerned.) hasn’t really resolved the situation from my point of view. I mean again my opinion when a correct why is found individually there is usually a blow down and VGIs on spotting it and thus by my personal extrapolation this should apply to a group as well. Yet as far as I’ve seen the situation has become more complicated. More bad press, more Black Propaganda, more BIs from what I’ve seen and more i ineffective “handlings” like that idiotic petition to the Justice Department to “investigate” Scientology.

      Also you say I had to be there. Well maybe this is true to a certain extent but also saying so excludes the Multiple Viewpoint System. None of the original Org Managers who worked with the original evaluators unit had to be there in order to find the why on any Org and write a program to handle whatever the situation was.

      Also Ron didn’t have to be in every Org in the world to see that most Orgs were not delivering the full benefits of Scientology but were quickieing it.

      I suggest that everyone read the Multiple Viewpoint System which is in the Command Channels pack I linked to earlier. Too bad they didn’t actually apply the data that they included in the pack. Instead what they did from what I saw when I first read it and now when I viewed it again was pervert the Org Board with an over complicated top heavy Byzantine structure totally ignoring Horizontal Fast Flow and Organization the Basic Flaw.

      Another thing. Yes Miscavige is a rabid SP and all that but the question is “how come” he got in such a position of power. I mean you could say everyone went PTS to him but that in my opinion doesn’t answer the question since aside from the various issues on PTS there is also the 3 May PL as well as the Ls. In my *opinion* saying that Miscavige was able to seize control all by himself and make everybody PTS tends to invalidate the tech of that Policy and various Rundowns which is the story that Marty and Mike seem to happily support.

      Me I don’t and it doesn’t matter to me whether or not I was there. It doesn’t *in my opinion* answer the question of how Miscavige rose to power. Just as I don’t think that simply removing him will terminately handle the problem.

      I’m not saying it isn’t a good start but as far as I’m concerned it is not a total handling.

      That said Miscavige has blatantly committed enough High Crimes to remove him from any position of power he has falsely assumed. So much so that I think it would be a constructive exercise to list out the High Crimes he has committed according to the policy on Suppressive Acts.

      So don’t get the idea that I am defending him in any way by respectfully disagreeing with you on this point.

      • Jim Logan

        I have not asserted DM as the “why”. It appears to me that this may not have been noticed, judging from your reply. I have suggested a Situation in my comments. The “why” for this sit hasn’t been formally put in this commentary. It is something along the lines of “how come those who should have been aware of DM’s SP case state, didn’t either observe it, or take the necessary steps to deal with it” and therefore allowed this SP to unmock LRH’s Estate Planning.

        Please, notice clearly, I have no mistake about what a “who/where” eval is. I have NOT suggested any such thing here. This salient fact seems to have gone by, again, judging from your responses.

        An SP, in charge, running the place into the ground IS not a “who/where” type of datum. It is a Situation type of datum. From that one can pull strings on a Data Trail to “why” that SP got into the position to do what he’s done.

        You see?

        • Jim,

          Ok then we’re on the same page on this one :)

          I’ve just heard the same old song “Dave is the Who Why” from the Marty, Mike, Dan & Steve Ex-Int Base Quartet that I thought you were singing along. My mistake.

          • Jim Logan

            That quartet has long since lost the tune.

            I AM a Scientologist. I USE Keeping Scientology Working. I have and apply the Code of Honor. I study, understand and can thing with LRH’s brand of Scientology.

            In that light, my point is hopefully now taken – the “who/where” is one thing, the “why” another. I’m not formally pronouncing a Proper Format type “why”. I am suggesting a valid Situation a la DS 11, and the string pulls that would lead to a Why for that departure, and along the lines that DM is an SP with all the things that a real SP does, including unmock the Trust B set ups et al.

            • Jim,

              Dan lost any credibility for me when he said something stupid like it was RTRC that compiled *all* of Ron’s HCOBs and that he didn’t write any himself.

              Contrary facts proved to be a falsehood by actual handwritten HCOBs.

              Similar to Dave’s assertion that the Ol’man never bothered to read the galleys for his books and therefore “SP Editors” could get away with altering them.

              That sort of thing.

              Also he might have had some credibility if he had referred his readers to the Policy Tech and Policy Distribution regarding those HCOBs that he hadn’t written himself.

              Not to mention the fact that he’s promoting the squirrelly C-Meter.

            • BTW point taken Jim.

              I’m with you on this. No argument there. Though I’d like to add at some point we should do a DS Eval on the scene.

          • Jim Logan

            On the “quartet” – I can’t comment on Dan as I’ve had no comm from him as of late. Steve Hall is a missing link between a jellyfish and seaweed, so with no vertebra, i.e., a spineless sort of goop, I discount his singing. The other two…well, they speak for themselves.

        • Jim Logan

          NOTE: I should say “attempt to unmock” LRH’s Estate Planning, as it is STILL enforceable in the Court. DM can’t actually do away with LRH’s Trust Instruments. Then it wouldn’t be a “trust”. Now, “trusts” are a long-term, enforced, sort of sacrosanct area of law. DM’s lawyers ain’t a gonna do away with all that precedent. Nope.

      • Jim Logan

        Listen mate, do ME a favor, if you are going to use acronyms that aren’t in common parlance, then please use a paretheses and say what they are.

        E.g., the one with Broeker in the Eastern European country, FSU? What the heck is that?

        Also, you aren’t saying that because he lived in this country that means he likely, or did, or was some sort of CIA thing, are you? That’s assuming facts and isn’t a good application of the Data Series.

        • FSU = Former Soviet Union.

          Out Point= Omitted Data.

          Like what the heck was he doing there at that time.

          Valid outpoint Jimbo and noted as such.

          You know sorta like the Soviet Pleasure Cruise Boat.

          • Jim Logan

            Ahh, OK, former Soviet Union. It is “former”. So, merely living in that country now, well that isn’t an Outpoint per se. That is, merely living there doesn’t add up to an illogic.

            • Jim,

              As I mentioned earlier the FSU former republics is an area of heavy CIA activity including Covert Action involved in moving them toward NATO with various color coded “revolutions”.


              All very cloak and dagger Jimbo.

              In other words I doubt if he was there on vacation. So why was he there?

              You can dismiss these actual out points if you wish but dismissing them can lead to trouble.

              For instance I’m sure Miscavige had tons of out points that were overlooked.

              • Jim Logan

                Ok buddy, we’ve skidded here on this topic of what constitutes and Outpoint as defined in the Data Series. To wit, somebody living in a country that was in the former Soviet Union, does NOT a CIA operative make. Assumed identities aren’t identical. This is such a leap to conclusion…um, well, er, let’s just leave it at that. You have no factual data to prove that Pat Broeker moved to an Eastern European country and took up with any sort of “op” or became an agent, or moved there to fulfill some mission he was on for some agency or anything else. You doubting he moved there for a vacation, does not a fact produce. Speculations, guesses, associations upon associations that are via this and that and maybe or it’s possible or I think that since the CIA is in Slobovia, and so is Pat Broeker then he must be connected, this isn’t Data Series stuff. It’s not.

                This isn’t a question of not willing to consider these things on my part Robin. It’s a question of facts that can be shown to actually exist.

                I’m sure not interested in this sort of thing at this point.

                • Jim,

                  You read too much into it. I’m not assuming anything here. I’m just pointing out something that I think is interesting and that Broeker was in an Eastern Bloc country sometime after he left the Church. To me this is an *out point*. Especially since this area is known for heavy CIA activity.

                  I’m not asking you to pursue it. I am merely pointing it out.

                  You can dismiss it if you wish. I frankly don’t give a flying f_k if you do.

                  Also I’m not jumping to any conclusions. But it seems you are in regard what you think my “conclusions” are.

                  It seems you don’t even want to consider the possibility that as Ron has said many times that the Church has been subjected to *covert operations*.

                  Now do I have to drag out various policies, directives and released FOIA documents to prove my point?

                  Like for example the following:


  22. 1984

    Tom, and (I guess) Jim, I am getting the impression that this blog page is assumed to be for ex-int staff, to blow charge on their 3D incident. (Judging by what I have heard on the life at int with DM, I can see that, and it is probably quite valid. If that staff worked in other places also, the focus may still be at int.)

    I would note that there are other people involved in this overall incident, and the incident does spill over to other places and times.
    IMHO, the reference to armchair quarterback can be similar to the Ivory Tower, which is not necessarily a bad thing. (I am reminded of the movie ‘Three Days of the Condor’)

    I vaguely recall Ron saying something about the worst overt one can make on someone is to betray their religious belief. Since this is the case, I understand the charge build up (and that a hell of a lot of terminals got hit by this).

    • Thanks for the back up on this ’84. Sometimes I feel like a lone voice in the wilderness :)

    • Jim Logan

      I’m sorry, but I sure don’t have as any intention, nor does Tom to my knowledge, nor Lana who runs this thing, to make this “Int Staff Only”. That is so far from any idea I have that I don’t know what to make of your comment in this regard. Again, sorry, I don’t get it.

      Throwing out a possibility as to how you could arrive at this, perhaps Robin’s comment about “Int Staff” and his upset concerning SOME of them portraying themselves as “authority” is coloring your opinion? Dunno, mate. Since the thought never occurred to me.

      My comments on my observations, direct observation, of David Miscavige and the havoc he wreaked at the Int Base, are just that – direct observations. Not some sort of “status” assertion. Holy cats!

      I’ve also now commented on the seeming lack of notice of my statements concerning the exact use of the Data Series in this whole thing with Robin. I have no where, no place, no how, said that a “who/where” is a “why”. I’ve been using the Data Series since 1975, fully checked out, OK to Find Whys in Cramming, done the DS checksheet, crammed Evaluators at Flag, worked with and crammed AVC et al. I’m versed, and conversant with this Tech.

      What I AM saying is that DM as SP, is on point. DM as CIA is SPECULATION. Speculation is all well and good. IF, and that’s IF, a string pull on this leads somewhere that can be corroborated, then it’s a valid string. So far, that string don’t pull. What DOES pull is DM’s SP actions. Those aren’t a “who/where” they are facts that can be assigned as Outpoints. They are verified data, as per the Data Series.

      Now, let’s get off this Q&A of this being some sort of elitist ‘Int Staff’ blog, or commentary, or attitude among those posting here. Yep, I was Int Base Staff. In the Sea Org. Part of the same group – Scientologists, as you and Robin. Same team. Still, as far as I’m concerned. OK?

      • Hey I’m with you on that Jimbo.

        Probably my BPC on other Blogs run by former Int Base Staff which had a basic shut-up and listen feel to it.

        No names mentioned 😉

        I agree that if there is involvement by CIA or any other agency they have covered up their tracks pretty well. Probably goes along with being 1.1 and no actual paper trail to follow that wasn’t probably burned after reading.

        Dave well he’s easy to spot. So obviously SP it hurts.

        Like I said I totally support taking the little rodent down.

        I’m just saying. Don’t be surprised when Dave’s departure is followed by various attacks from certain quarters.

  23. Doggone It!

    Speaking of strings to pull: One thing I just can’t understand is how Miscavige, who at the time didn’t have a particularly authoritative post, have both the organizational juice and the legal savvy to set up a corporate structure for Scientology that would eventually allow the entire organization, and to a large degree the subject itself, to fall under the complete de facto control of one man?

    • Good question Doggone it since according to RJ 31 RED 307 Int corporate sort out was assigned to the GO which was their job as Trustee under the Legal Branch.

      Meanwhile back at the ranch. Someone convinced Ron that RTC should be created to maintain the purity of the tech and legally enforce the Trademarks per the HCOPL Misrepresentation of Dn & Scn. This task was originally assigned to HCO per the PL on its Substance & Duty but it seems like HCO had other fish to fry and then there was the GO’s Legal Branch but it seemed that they were busy putting out other fires. So a separate organization for Trademark seemed like a good idea at the time.

      Yet the Ol’man was suspicious it seems rightly so that such an Organization could fall into hostile hands so he personally created CST. Not just a “repository” as that “pilot” Dictionary that never seems to get off the runway over there but one vested with the exclusive control of Copyrights. But not only that an option to purchase the Trademarks if the Church of Scientology and the Religion of Scientology were no longer “co-terminal”.

      This probably would have worked if management or as I call them the Junta hadn’t gone a shooting spree and shot anyone who would have fulfilled the requirements as Trustees.

      RTC on the other hand had less stringent requirements. It seems any low IQ self important bozo as long as they were a Sea Org member could be a Trustee.

      Anyway by an act of legal legerdemain they were able to revise RTC’s articles to make CST subject to RTC licensing and thereby having total control who could assume the role of Trustee making the guidelines even more stringent then they originally were.

      Get the picture. CST which was actually senior to RTC is now subject to the whims of an untrained bunch of morons. One who would become chair moron of the board.

      So power hungry Dave and his gang of shysters had made it so he was top dog.

      There were other factors in his meteoric rise to power like the elimination of the Controller’s Office and the GO thus placing in the catbirds seat of “Trustee” and other things but I’d say from my research of the scene that was probably the biggest thing that gave him unlimited control over the Organization as COB RTC.

    • Jim Logan

      DM didn’t set up the corporate structure. The actual set up was done under the very watchful eye of LRH. His Estate Planning clearly lays it out. This is fully described on the savescientology.com website.

      It was put there by LRH to provide a system of checks and balances, to provide for a situation where one guy, like DM, could NOT by a sole dictator over all of Scientology. That function STILL exists in that Estate Planning and in those Trust Instruments. It is a TRUST. That can’t be unmocked by DM or anyone else and the Court has full legal authority to enforce the Trust. (In fact, in terms of dealing with this SP, these actual dox, these Trust Instruments ARE a viable, enforceable, route to dealing with this situation.)

      LRH foresaw and laid into place, THE method of dealing with this. As an anecdote to this, my wife Annie said to me directly that LRH set up this structure to provide a means of checks and balances to deal with the scenario where a single person took over the thing. That structure IS the Estate Planning.

      That DM has managed to cow into submission the others that were to be those checks and balances, and thinly veil his takeover with bogusness, is the Situation. You see? It goes back to the same area of the Data Trail – AN SP took over. How come? Well, I’ve proffered a possible answer. Yet, if we take Data Series 11, we can use it, and take this Situation, and come up with a Bright Idea of how to handle it.

      That Bright Idea has as one of its most viable resources, the use of the Estate Planning, IN COURT, to handle this.

      • Jim,

        Are you referring to Trust B?

        • Jim Logan

          Yes, Trust B, and the ensuing dox – the Charters and Bylaws of CST, RTC, CSI. The “buy back” clause, the “not co-terminal” clause, the reqs for CST Board to study 2.5 hours per day, and maintain the appointments etc. These are all of them – Trust Instruments – legally enforceable documents that get around any First Amendment proscription (they can be studied, and judged by the Court without intrusion into the First Amendment issues otherwise entailed.)

          • Good point of attack. It should be evident even to a “wog” that the Church of Scientology and the Religion of Scientology are no longer co-terminal.

            Actually it should be obvious to a cat 😉

      • BTW Jim.

        DS 11 is a very good ref to apply to the Situation.

        • Jim Logan

          Yeah, DS 11 is the first step in Evals on the (what used to be anyway) AVC lines.

          I’ve used that in this commentary since it gives one the most major departure, which I’m pretty sure we have, and our own observations can confirm, in what I’ve suggested. It’s at least in the ballpark, save a tweak or two, maybe. But, I think it fits the bill required of DS 11.

  24. Tom M

    Robin, okay, perhaps you didn’t read some of my earlier postings.

    I already did the eval I did on on what happened to the Sea Org. I pointed out that none of the Int Execs were ever real Scientologists. They never worked in an org and made a Scientologist from raw meat.
    These int execs formed up CMOI only for $$$$$. They recruited their buddies from the Cadet Org to join them uplines and lined their back pockets forming up a duplicate management entity that kept the Flag Bureaus and all of Scientology in danger since 1979. Yager: Nice guy, but hasn’t a clue on how to make a Scientologist. Guillume: Went from raw meat to CO EU in less than one year. His first post was a cook. He went from that to CO EU. Missed a lot of hatting on how Scientology works. Marty. Never really was a Scientologist. Mithoff was an auditor in Denver org. He was the closest. But he was star struck by Hollywood elite. Rinder never worked in a delivery org. He is not a Scientologist now and never was. DM audited at FSO but he really hasn’t a clue.

    And guess what? All of these Int Execs are out of Scientology right now and the ones who made it outside of the Sea Org are attacking it and LRH. No REAL Scientologist would ever do this no matter how keyed in he or she was.

    DM took out all of the rest of the execs and now it is his time to go. But if he was taken out there is Norman who will take over. He’s just as bad and then there is a whole line of SP syncopates behind him who are ready to take over and forward the money campaign.

    But DM has to go and then the other execs have to go to lower orgs to be rehabilitated by body routing and doing OCAs on raw public.

    CMO Int and then RTC is what destroyed Scientology. And these “execs” made a lot of money through the years. A lot. That’s what it was all about the whole time. DM is just there alone right now sucking the rest of the blood out of it.

    I believe DM is run by the government. I have no proof, but there you go. That’s my opinion.

    But I’m not stuck on DM. He’s just the last piece of the puzzle and once he’s gone we have a chance to implement the handling.

    ML Tom

    • “I believe DM is run by the government. I have no proof, but there you go. That’s my opinion.”

      Same here Tom. Seems we’re both on the same page here.

      There is some proof in the Secret Closing Agreement that he does to a degree work for the IRS in enforcing Tax Compliance as Chairman of CTCC.

      That list of names released by Trento to cryptome from what is allegedly a list of FIO (that’s Former Intel Officer Jim 😉 ) Robert Crowley former ED CIA contacts as “agents of influence” is another one but has never been fully verified.

      His close association with Robert Gray of H&K who is known as a spook and Adnan Khashoggi are other red flags.

      What you wrote here also makes total sense and explains the current Former Int-Base Scn hit squad to a T.



  25. Tom-Tell me more about all the money these guys made and would that include Marty? Like how much? and for how long?

  26. 1984

    To Jim and Tom,
    Thank you.

  27. Tom M

    Ingrid, I don’t know how long it went on for but I was at a muster once at CMOI – end of 1985 and around Xmas time end-of-year bonuses were announced: Exec Council was to get end-of-year bonuses of 75k, WDC members 50K, Div Heads 25k, Department heads 15k, officers 10k and regular staff 5K. OSA staff usually got around 8k. Because RTC was senior to CMOI their bonuses would have been higher, although I don’t know what they were.

    There were usual production bonuses for CMOI staff such as $100/wk for having stats in affluence and so forth.

    DM, Yager and all their CMOI buddies all went to the same high school and recruited each other for Int. Set up the duplicative management system and cross-ordered Management and orgs into apathy. They had to do something to earn their bonuses.

    ML Tom

    • Tom,

      I was at AOLA in the mid-late 80’s when their average GI was over a half a mill per week. Yet my wife who was working in Tres at the time said the FP1(that’s Finance Plan 1 which is outlined in a RED for those who haven’t done Staff Status II or Product 0) didn’t and couldn’t include essentials like tampons for the Sea Org female staff because most of the money was being sucked up by Int.

      She wrote a report to Guillame asking him why Int was taking such huge percentage of GI above the usual consulting fees covered in AC1(which is the form used by all Orgs allocate GI) and following her KR all non-SO working in areas other then Tech at the AO were removed from post.

      (All non-SO tech staff followed but I think it was for different reasons.)

      Anyway the response my wife received from Guillame was interesting since it wasn’t anything like “I’ll look into it.” but was “How did you know about this?” shortly before being handed her pink slip and terminated from her post which at the time was in affluence.

      • Tom M

        Robin, Guillume was the perfect sycophant, he went in and destroyed AOLA as his first official action. He cancelled libs, and bonuses, fired all of the Non-Sea Org delivery terminals without replacing them and so forth. All at the order of DM (DM put Guillume on post as ED Int).

        I was at AOLA from 1978 to 1982 and we always had half million dollar GIs. We were swimming in money because no one bothered us. We were considered upstat (back in the days when it was okay to be upstat) We financed everything on the base. We used to call FP “Spending Committee” we had so much money.

        When I was the Qual Sec I used to get $350 bonuses weekly and we earned them. We delivered more VSD than GI – always. AOLA was rocking, but Int Management could only destroy it. Talk about a violation of Data Series 8.

        ML Tom

        • Tom,

          We had a twelve week straight affluence that went from just under 200 WDAHs to over 600 WDAHs per week a stat we held for over a year until they transferred our Class XII Senior C/S Sandy Wilhere uplines to Int and replaced her with Joan Issacson who was literally a bitch.

          Well at least we ended up with Sue Soloman as our HGC C/S when Ken Rose went to Int.

          (You remember Ken? The guy who joined up with John Atack after blowing Int.)

          Yet despite all the shifts and changes in personell we did manage to make it to Saint Hill Size. But instead of being commended we were basically terminated. Meaning that over 75% of their tech staff where shown the door.

          Another “brillant” move by so called “management”.

          I don’t know if Guillame was involved with this or not but I do know that when Joe Pinneli , John Joseph and I had recruited close to 2000 Auditor Association members it was literally torn apart by an Int base recruiting mission led by our man.

          At that point I figured we were dealing with a bunch of Keystone Kops calling themselves “management”.

          • Tom M


            I was the Sea Org Programs Chief at the time. I did the “squish” eval that put AOLA into affluence. I posted a security guard in the lobby of AOLA and a Rover outside of it. I told the security Chief that if I find any SPs in AOLA he was going to the RPF. He worked it and kept it clean. I gave him 2 more staff to make up for the ones posted in AOLA.

            AOLA stayed in affluence for a year and a half with Ivan at the helm and Sandy running the tech lines. The place was rocking. The first thing that happened is Exec Strata sent a recruitment mission into AOLA to get all of the EC up to Exec Strata. Of course, it went around me. I found out the next day they were in the org and I literally threw them out of the place. ED Int pulled me uplines to chew me out but the opposite happened: Me and WDC SO creamed him. Then Gold sent a recruitment mission ala WDC Gold. I ejected them. WDC SO handled WDC Gold. I went uplines and had a meeting with all of WDC and basically told them to leave AOLA alone. Then I went to RTC and did the same.

            A year later and it seemed AOLA was going to beat FSO stats. It was just rocking. I had Esto’s posted in the org long before DM found the “lost tech”.

            Then the only thing that could have caved AOLA in happened. Murphy’s law is spot-on. Spike Bush and Jessie Prince from RTC went into AOLA, unbeknownst to me, and read the riot act to Ivan and Sandy – just those two – and gave them a brow-beating that they would never forget. They told Ivan and Sandy that they weren’t really making OTs and that they were making “garbage”. Spike and Jessie were sent with this R-Factor by the then IG Vicky Azneran. Then me and WDC SO got clobbered. Then Sandy was recruited and Ivan was constantly told by CMO PAC that his org was shit. CMO PAC sacked AOLA for more staff for Gold and the org died. RTC and CMOI killed the only St. Hill Sized org there was. It went into a 20 year slump after that.

            The poor org now has around 80 staff and its production is shit. Thank you RTC and CMO Int.

            ML Tom

            • Tom,

              Yeah I remember those days. The HGC was in screaming affluence under Cohen the Barbarian (Rich Cohen) and Ivan (Obulisky) the Terrible. No OTs? What a joke! We were making an averaging dozens a week. Hitting 38 as a highest ever. I mean I got sick of hearing the William Tell overture 😉

              There we other factors in play too. We were getting a lot of PCs and Pre OTs who were “former”members of the Intelligence Community. Myself I was auditing a variety of Tinker, Tailors, Soldiers and Spies. A cool dude who was one of the founders of MoTown who according to a book I read recently Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon had some connection to the dark side and another one who was a Nuclear Physicist who was explaining to me in great detail the difference between our Minute Man and the Soviet SS 20s and cleared up the difference between a MRV and a MIRV.

              Nice guy. But scared the shit out of me because I thought the stuff he was telling me was highly classified. Then there were special forces and probable CIA who had SEREs (Survival, Escape, Resistance, and Evasion) training that ran somewhat like implants.

              Years later when I did some research on the scene I figured that some of these people were probably assigned to some RV project run by DIA.

              Back then like I wrote earlier. We were still delivering the Original OT levels but they were sorta like the In&Out secret menu.

              Funny thing was they started off loading the auditors and C/S who were capable of delivering these levels about the time that PSI-Tech opened its doors in New Mexico. Probably just a coincidence.

              Anyway sometimes I felt like Alice stepping through a looking glass while auditing at AO at times. Then there were the usual clientele who originally could fit in the PC/Pre OT waiting area then we ran out of room and they spilled out into the hallway around the HGC and they couldn’t fit ’em there anymore so many of them ended up hanging out in the stairwell and then when 4A started complaining about them taking up space in their Pre OT lounge the Tech Services started issuing pagers.

              I’ll tell you Tom the place was packed and I was making over 40 WDAHs a week without even trying.

              Funny thing was that every three weeks we’d all get our Ethics Files cleared which to me seemed like a waste since most of us were too busy to get into ethics trouble. I mean it made it tempting to go out and commit a few big overts just to make it worth while.

              Not only that but they were handing out bonuses that none of us had any time to use which I eventually gave to my wife so she could do her OT 7 EP and 3X.

              Good times. Till someone lowered the boom and crashed the place. Personally I think it started with heavy ethics. Our statistics were in affluence and moving into a new normal range which in my view should have been declared power. Rich kept screaming to put another HGC there to no avail and then one week our stats paused. So in came “ethics” like flies on excrement assigning us a state of emergency.

              And it seems all the BPC that we built up by telling execs to go f_k themselves when they tried to “C/S” cases blew back on us and place became a frickin’ concentration camp. I mean my stats were still in screaming power according to the FOs never mind C/S Series 25 yet I got comm-eved for allegedly missing a withhold. At that point the scene was moving from absurd to ridiculous and I ended up going to Flag to sort it out. A big mistake because at that point in the late ’80’s it should been called the “Mecca of Technical Deception”.

              I mean Flag at that time looked like a frickin’ squirrel group compared to AO and it seemed that the “intern supervisor” was more obsessed with an intern’s deportment than whether they could audit or not.

              At that time I felt like I had gone through the looking glass and down some rabbit hole when I got to the so called “Mecca of Technical Perfection” but that’s another story for another time.

  28. Jim Logan

    I just came across a comment in a tape from the 5th London ACC that applies to what we are going over here and have been discussing on the main blog for a while – the handling of 3D engrams. This is an addendum to the early 50s technique described in a couple of issues from that time, and which Chris Black gave a summary description of on the main blog a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, here’s the bit from the later 58 tape:
    “You could also process individuals as a group, but the experimental runs on this of 1950 – clear back then – did not demonstrate that it had too great a value. When you started to run an engram out of a group that was a group engram, you got into some weird ideas. There were three or four members of the group who hadn’t been around during the receipt of this group engram and so usually all that happened, the engram got run into them. And it was not too successful.

    “The most successful way of handling it was simply to take the individuals of the group one right after the other and just knock out the ARC Breaks, one right after the other and all of a sudden they would all say, ‘So what?’ and the group engram was blown.” THE SKILL OF AN AUDITOR, PART II, 12 Nov 1958, 5th London ACC.

    This tape goes on to describe the skills that an auditor has and can use to handle each Dynamic, including the Third. Paraphrasing it (and not as a substitute for going through the full tape), the idea of handling individuals, one at a time, and instead of overwhumped by the vast quantities of things to handle, take your skills as an auditor and apply them in an increasing sphere of influence.

    Auditors gain the ability to look at the Isness of things. That alone is a step up and itself begins the process of dealing with them.

    So, applying this tape to this here blog, I think that as charge comes up, it’s best to continue the comm cycles until it’s dissipated. At least if it’s viewed somewhat, it can be less than it was, and that’s what we can do to change conditions and ease up the various 3D engrams. Of course, trying not to run them in on those that don’t have them!

    • Jim,

      I agree Jim. We should keep this to a level of discussion instead of running in engrams that will have to be run out later. I’ll admit that I’ve learned a thing or two from this doing this no question about it but then there is also the fact that the 3D engram under discussion here occurred at Int and many of us weren’t there.

      My understanding of a 3D engram is one that occurred to the entire group and around the time Miscavige or whoever was advising him to get rid of the exec structure established by 339R I was taking a hiatus from Scientology having been labeled as “disaffected”.

      I mean I was still applying Scientology. In fact I had a friend I rode with Ex-Army MP and worked Security at Livermore Labs who I would help with the PTS materials and the other Bikers I rode with who I’d do assists on etc. but during that period as far as I was concerned Int Management could have been on the moon.

      I’d never gotten up close and personal to the scene like you, Lana and Tom.

      Even so I’ve come up with a take away of a cognition on why I got so pissed of as in BPC on Marty and Mike’s blog and that instead of running out the 3D engram they were running it in on a lot of us who weren’t there.

      I’m not saying that they intentionally did this but I just realized that this was the result.

      Anyway Jimbo thanks for that piece of tech.

      You da man 😉

    • Jim Logan: “The most successful way of handling it was simply to take the individuals of the group one right after the other and just knock out the ARC Breaks, one right after the other and all of a sudden they would all say, ‘So what?’ and the group engram was blown.” THE SKILL OF AN AUDITOR, PART II, 12 Nov 1958, 5th London ACC.

      Exactly what I was saying on the other blogspot: each person needs to go in session individually and address their charge and get it cleaned up, ARCXs and all. Then they WILL go “So what?” and the true importance (unimportance) will have been recognized.

      Have fun here, guys. And Robin, IMO, shorter posts are better; more easily read/confronted. Just saying. :)

  29. fritz

    Hello guys ! I’m new here. My english is not up to, but I try. I’m trained and OT, and can understand what you are talking about.
    Well, i’m a public so I didn’t go through what you experience. But, I have been through the “take over” of RTC in 1982. And that is to some degree a stuck point on my track. I was new at this time but could see the alter is.
    I think the real point was alter is of source. I was aware of a big fuck up when at new ye

  30. fritz

    *** Fritz – please write to admin@milestonetwo.org with your questions and we will get them sorted out, one on one, with the correct references and information for you — rather than on a public blog. SIGNED MODERATOR

    • fritz

      I don’t see that was so secret in my communication that it cannot be exposed publicaly. I was just saying that I thought that all Ron’s Journal were false from 35. As I don’t have a copy of what I wrote, I cannot just repeat it. He what I say is true it is just bad Miscavige not for any indenpendant. So I dont see why you wouldn’t publish it in this blog.

      • Fritz,

        I have no idea what you were trying to communicate but the idea that RJs were somehow false since 35 is I believe what you are trying to convey.

        Hopefully you are not one of those proponents of Ron having a Doppelgänger of some kind. I mean if you don’t like a lot of us accept the premise that Miscavige acted alone and that there has been an effort to seize the subject just as it says in the policy Politics; Freedom From then it would not be to their advantage to eliminate Ron until the subject was wrapped up and completed which wasn’t until early 1986 with the release of new OT VIII.

        Besides there are a number of reliable witnesses including myself who had seen Ron in and around the area of the Complex in this period.

        I’m not dismissing your theory out of hand but there is too much evidence that Ron was still around in this period and that some double would not been able to carry on such an elaborate deception for very long.

        • fritz

          To Robin.
          Yes, I see your point and you were around and I was not.
          But my experience is at new ev 1983. There was the lecture “the proof”(RJ38). And I simply didn’t recognise LRH voice.
          About RJ 35. It’s threatening to loose your eternity, 1,5, not LRH style. Further on it promotes levels above new OTVIII which proved not to exist. Would LRH promised something which doesn’t exist ? Not his style as well.
          Later on on a short message he promised that OTVIII handle amnesia on the whole track. I did the level. Neither me nor anyone I could talk too who did it has had any amnesia handled. I think new OTVIII is already a fake level.
          Now read that :
          It’s simple, either the text alleged to Miscavige is false or RJ 38 (or both).

          • >To Robin.
            Yes, I see your point and you were around and I was not.
            But my experience is at new ev 1983. There was the lecture “the proof”(RJ38). And I simply didn’t recognise LRH voice.About RJ 35. It’s threatening to loose your eternity, 1,5, not LRH style.Further on it promotes levels above new OTVIII which proved not to exist. Would LRH promised something which doesn’t exist ? Later on on a short message he promised that OTVIII handle amnesia on the whole track. I did the level. Neither me nor anyone I could talk too who did it has had any amnesia handled. I think new OTVIII is already a fake level.Now read that :
            It’s simple, either the text alleged to Miscavige is false or RJ 38 (or both).<

            I've already looked at that "analysis" which is already based on the assumed bias that RJ 38 must be fake. Fact is that you can never get an accurate voice comparison by comparing recordings.

            Also yes I've seen the Riverside Declaration. I mean what was Ron supposed to say about the man handling his personal interests as well as finances as COB ASI. That he was a thief and a liar?

            Not unless you wanted to throw into question the competency of those handling his estate.

  31. BTW everyone Ron did develop a process to directly deal with Group Engrams. Here it is:

    HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    A group is composed of individuals. If they have a group engram it only has force because of basics on that subject in their banks. Thus, if they are cleaned up on the general subject, the general group engram should blow off and disappear.
    This, therefore, is done on every member of the group.
    (1) Do the Info Sheet provided below.
    (2) Fly a rud to F/N. If TA high get it down by listing “What has been overrun?” to a BD item and rehab it to F/N.
    (3) List by laws of listing and nulling but be sure to get a BD item, which F/Ns, the question “What is the greatest overt you have ever committed on the whole track?” The list may be rather long.
    (4) Now run (despite F/N) “What ARC break occurred just before that?” Use ARCU and CDEI. Desist on this step at the first F/N cog VGIs.
    (5) Now list, “What is the most unwanted change experienced by this or another org?” By L & N to a BD item and F/N.
    (6) “What ARC break was connected with that?”
    (7) Now list the question by L & N “What purpose has failed?” This should be to a BD item. It will F/N and the pc cognite and GIs.
    (8) “What ARC break was connected with that?” ARCU CDEI to F/N VGIs.
    Note to auditor—if you can’t get it to F/N prepcheck it but if correct items all above lists really should F/N.
    Info Sheet
    Org Name _________________________________________________________________________ Name of Member (Print)_______________________________________________________________ Level or Grade of case_________________________________________________________________ TA at Start____________________________Needle behavior_________________________________ General attitude to auditor______________________________________________________________
    The session should be rapid and deft. Do not however overwhelm by chopping comm. Follow “End Phenomena and F/N” data as per recent HCOB 20 February 70. This is particularly important in the “Greatest Overt” process as pc gets introverted in listing.
    In doing this on group members who are being called in, it is important to inform them “This is not a Sec Check. It is a new process being run to help the org.” This can be posted on the board. Do NOT tell them you are running a group engram as they will become enturbulated, self-list, etc.
    Any pc who is sick a day or two afterward has had a wrong item given him or her.
    On members of the group not previously audited by anyone, Tech Services for the operation should do the Info Sheet using a meter for TA and needle state and not put the person through to actual session but info the D of T to get the person audited on Dianetics.
    Copyright © 1970
    by L. Ron Hubbard
    L. RON HUBBARD Founder

    I’m not recommending it be run but in my opinion sometimes just the awareness of the mechanics of the bank which is what training basically deals with can on it’s own produce case gain.

    Probably why Ron says that Training can give over 50% of the gains on the Bridge.


    • fritz

      Robin, it’s not a matter if LRH was there or not. It’s just the perception that he didn’t say nor write the RJ from 35.
      Listen to RJ 38 if you find it and tell me if it’s LRH speaking from your own feeling. And if you read “From clear to eternity” it promotes OT Levels which are not existing. Isn’t that a contrary fact? Did Hubbard ever promote something which is not existing? He simply cannot have written that.
      Each time I have put this thesis on a blog I was just discarded as a kind of moron interested in conspiracy theory. Especially by Mike or Marty.
      It even doesnt mean that the CIA or the Markabian or who ever is behind it. Just mean, that scientology was carefully and willfully altered. That the source was replaced. On the order of Miscavige, Broeker and few others, for some unknown reasons.
      Please read the following text : http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_ssqpjt.htm
      It is supposed to be written by Miscavige. Either this “Eye only” issu is a forgery or RJ 38.
      But the Eye Only, if forged has been done so perfectly by someone who knew Miscavige style and associate at this time.

      • The fact is Fritz that as he says in Current State of the Materials and Tech Correction Round-up they exist in note form and as he says in RJ 39 that it is up to management to release these levels.

        Personally I suspect the provenance of the RED Clear to Eternity more than the RJs you mention because it omits any mention of the original OT Levels and people like Mike Rinder use this as “proof” that Ron “canceled” them. Aside from the fact that an LRHED can not cancel anything established in an HCOB or a Policy Letter. See the HCOPLs Issues Types of, Policy; Source of and Seniority of Orders. The the relevant portions of latter two quoted regarding this “cancelation” by omission of the policy on Violation of Staff Covenant when he said Miscavige canceled that issue.

        Jim should know better than that and so should you Fritz if you’d ever done a Staff Status II.

        Personally I’m beginning to see that the down fall of the Church has nothing to do with Miscavige who as far as I’m concerned is just a justification or infiltration by the Government but by a general failure to apply Standard Policy and Tech. Such as those policies that I have cited.

        As I wrote earlier there were all kinds of 9 foot high fences that could have been used to handle anyone like Miscavige or any other kind of plant that entered the Organization and *attempted* to seize control. But the fact is that they were never used.

        Just as with a PC as with an organization which like a PC is a living entity if you fail to apply the tech in the case of an Organization. The 3rd Dynamic tech Ron talks about in the Intro to the Management Series. You end up with a failed case.

        The Church as far as I’m concerned is just an Organizational case failure. You see Governments going the same way. Like for example violates the Bill of Rights and the Constitution for the sake of expedience or “National Security” or “protecting us from terrorism” or to “save the children” or whatever other justification they use to torch the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

        Could you imagine if an Auditor acted in the same manner?

        If an auditor or C/S decided that doing a sec-check was more important than say handling the PC’s case in total violation of C/S Series 55 Ivory Tower?

        Personally I wouldn’t call either of them an “auditor” or “C/S”.

        Nor would I call anyone in “Management” an “exec” or “manager” if they set aside policy for the sake of expedience and allowed some Rock Slamming SP with possible connections to Government who considers the IRS and InterPol his “friends” and wants to turn the Organization into some religious version of Micky D’s.

        Look at this so called “Ideal Org” program which has no relationship with the policy on Ideal Orgs except in name. Talk about the suppressive High Crime of saying one is doing Scientology and doing something else!

        I was there when that suppressive little twerp said that “gradients didn’t apply”. Yet if you read the actual policy you will find that they do indeed apply and that it is the only way to build an Ideal Org. Not with bricks and mortar or renovating some back water building in the middle of no where at great expense in total violation of the policy on Quarters but with *people*.

        Another thing Fritz while I am on a ranting roll here. Do you actually buy into that total BS which is nothing but *enemy line* by the 3 Ms (Marty, Mike and Mayo) that just because so called “Management” has been playing with its putz or screwing the pooch all this time instead of getting Scientology in use and applied and making real OT VIIIs by that I mean real OTs not by passed cases who write pathetic “Success Stories” like “they feel more like themselves” after “completing” that level or have to go running back to Flag every time they have a problem or upset with somebody instead of the toasted marshmallows that they call “products” that the levels above OT VIII don’t exist.

        Look how long it took them to release Super Power. A rundown that had been sitting on the “back burner” since ’78 when it was pretty much wrapped up in many cases in HCOB form not just notes.

        Even so those morons over there screwed it up!

        The prerecs were supposed to KTL/LOC. Not endless objectives. And it was supposed to be delivered to the Staff before being delivered to the public.

        Also did think that there is anyone over there who is capable of converting those notes into actual levels.

        I mean those squirrels over there if given the Lord’s Prayer would probably f-ck that up.

        But hey if you want to go on believing what Marty and Mike and Mayo say and accept that as “proof”. You go right ahead.

        Me I’ll stick with what Ron says. Because he has never lied to me before.

        • fritz

          Robin, that’s right what you say, usually LRH don’t lie. So, in RJ 35 he describes “actual” OT level from 9 up which are supposed to be very long. And not to wast “the brief moment in eternity”. I did what he said and went up the grade chart to new OTVIII and I did it in 1988,on the maiden voyage, after having been paying huge money “to put the ship there”. I also did a routing form to start OT9. The idea was to deliver 9 when there will be 1000 OT8.
          Some month later the new order was OT9 will be delivered when all orgs will be Saint Hill size.
          And now this is gone, and there is just ideal org business.
          26 years later nobody delivered OT9.
          It’s like the hebrew going into the promised land. They would walk on the desert 40 years. And they will be all dead.
          I’m affraid that when they will deliver OT9, the OT8 of the maiden Voyage will be either dead or so old and poor that they will not be able to do this “long level” which will end when those still alive will be 90.
          Now what seems obvious even for anyone not so bright, is that those level never existed. And they used all sort of lies to make people remain in the church.
          And as LRH don’t lie, RJ 35 is consequently FALSE. And what I say is that all subsequent RJ are also false. I don’t say why, or who did it (obviously Miscavige). And this following document, if not itself a forgery would be the proof. http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_ssqpjt.htm

          • The fact that management hasn’t released them. Does not mean that they do not exist. It could mean that management is withholding these levels for whatever reason. My speculation is for possible reasons of “National Security”.

            If you do some research of the Remote Viewing Program you will find that individuals like for instance Pat Price and Ingo Swann who were capable of locating such secret installations a NSA’s Sugar Grove facility as described here:


            were considered a threat.

            In fact Hal Puthoff goes into detail of the Intelligence Community’s concern:


            which could also explain why the original OT Levels were removed from the Grade Chart. Since the original remote viewers had achieved those levels. As covered in this report by the Federation of American Scientists:


            Of course anyone who would use Occam’s Razor could possibly miss this as the possible reason why there seems to be a coordinated campaign to invalidate and discredit the subject and that it is simply being caused by one SP because that is the simplest explanation. An assertion that in my opinion works in concert with this possible program to invalidate and discredit the subject.

            I mean an organization that can be brought down by the machinations of one man. One who in my opinion is a complete imbecile wouldn’t seem to have a lot going for it.

            In my opinion this whole operation against the Church is being done in order to push the subject out of sight so that it can used secretly for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many as covered in the SJ on “Black Dianetics”.

  32. fritz

    Greatest overt question wasn’t it later added to L10?

    • Hi Fritz,

      Nice to have you here and welcome aboard!

      Well now regarding L-10. You could call it a high level of confessionals as it says in the Admin Dictionary. That question specifically. I’m not sure but it is interesting that Ron did develop L-10 shortly after that rundown was released.

      Much of the rest of it became what was known as Acceleration. The reason I know all this arcane data is I used to FES and audit cases who went way back to when they kept some kind of Standard Folder Admin which was around the time of Goals Listing.

      For real white knuckle excitement try correcting a Goals List sometime 😉

      Anyway the reason we are all here is probably the reason why you are here and once again I’d like to welcome you Fritz.


    • fritz

      Yes Robin, it’s not impossible that Miscavige had some master. It would seem incredible that a 20 years old guy would do a take over. But he wanted to save the church from “higher officers”. He would go far to stop the church from sinking. Stopping everything, lying.

      • Fritz,

        In my opinion now with the hind sight of wide rear mirrors as Ron says in RJ 39. What CMOI did was basically get away with Mutiny which BTW is a High Crime and it goes without saying a Suppressive Act. Why not compound the felony? By using the “Danger Condition” as cover.

        Fact is the Danger Formula was never fully done. No investigation or post mortem of what happened to the GO and Controllers office but instead those two sectors were illegally “abolished” committing another high crime in the process but why stop there?

        Now with the full control of Trade Marks and Service Marks. Why not alter the Tech while they’re at it. A process that started slowly with a few BTBs now labeled “HCOBs” and a few squirrelly derivative courses BOTWO (Base on the Works of LRH) then accelerated when the new “Scientology Religion” as opposed to the Religion of Scientology was acknowledged as a Tax Exempt 501Ciii Organization by the IRS and InterPol doing the heavy lifting on its behalf and the laity believing that Miscavige “saved” the Church by selling out.

  33. Lana,

    I think we’ve sorta digressed, diverged as in gone off the rails on the original discussion of the removal of key execs established per RED 339R. I guess I could say I’m partly responsible but not entirely guilty 😉

    Maybe in my opinion we need to cover a broader area than Int.

    In my opinion “management” as such was becoming as Ron says in Essay on Management was becoming a proverbial “spoke in the wheel” before this point.

    What Tom and I wrote sort of proves this point. Fact is that AO probably would have continued to expand without interference and meddling by upper management. Once the place was going after the eval and the program that followed.

    Probably the same could be said about OC which was bursting at the seams at the time as well as LA Org and ASHO.

    Yet this isn’t the first time management acted destructively. In fact they moved in on Stevens Creek Org under the provocation of “squirreling” by Kingsley and “de-dinging”. True de-dinging was a squirrel action and all over that but the “cure” devised by management at the time in my opinion was worse than the actual malady.

    Same with the Franchise Network which was practically in an open revolt at the time. It’s interesting that the method to handle the dissension at first was to set up and coordinate a 3rd Dynamic engram handling on the scene.

    I was at one of those Orgs and I can tell you the discussion was quite shall we say “lively”. Who knows maybe if the action was continued things might have settled down. Maybe not. But it was better than the course that was taken later of heavy and unjust “ethics actions” which seemed to enturbulate the field even more causing an actual rift and splintering of the group.

    Jim brought up a good reference about those who weren’t there actually running the engram in instead of out. Probably the thing that was successful about those original 3rd Dynamic Handlings was the fact that most of were there and actually living in the incident.

    Different now when it is just history. Yet what has occurred in the past to a greater or lesser degree affects us all because of the unknowns involved.

    That said there is also policy on how to run 3D engrams and that is in the HCOPL Writing an Ethics Order HCO POLICY LETTER OF 2 JUNE 1965 which I’ll submit:

    When writing an Ethics Order, don’t ARC Break its readers by leaving out the data.
    Don’t create a mystery. Example of Wrong phrasing: “Woody McPheeters is declared a Suppressive Person. He stopped a student from coming on course.” That leaves out all the data. Leaves questions – Where did it happen? Is it in our area? What did he do? Who did he do it to? What’s the evidence? Correct Example: “WOODY McPHEETERS in Baltimore, U.S.A. is declared a Suppressive Person. On (date) he discouraged Fred Fairchild from taking the Saint Hill Course by writing to him lies about the course, well known by said McPheeters to be false statements. Evidence: Letter from McPheeters dated — to — now available in Ethics Files. Charge: Suppression of a Scientologist and barring his way to Release and Clear. Findings by former evidence of course record and this: Suppressive Person. All Certs etc.”
    Don’t be unspecific or you leave people in a huge mystery.
    Ethics Orders are supposed to run group engrams out, not in!
    Always put in what you know, nothing you don’t know, and only what you have evidence or witnesses for. Ethics Orders are issued on real data, not opinion.
    Don’t issue orders saying “made derogatory statements about Ron,” or “suppressed Scientology.” Obviously that’s quite impossible as a charge.
    I . No statement could possibly injure Ron. It’s quite impossible to “spoil Ron’s reputation” or “upset Ron” by some suppressive utterance. Ethics weren’t made to defend Ron. Statements “about Ron” are just indications of suppression. This is never used in an Ethics Order. Just omit statements or charges about Ron.
    2. Suppressives can only restim people’s banks. They have no power at all. To infer one could do much to Scientology is silly.
    All such charges are based on a Suppressive’s actions against other persons and Scientologists or groups. These can be restimulated and can be made to wobble about. Some man forbidding his wife auditing is pronounced Suppressive “for forbidding his wife auditing on date – by –.”
    The Potential Trouble Source is also named as to why and with what Suppressive Person he or she is connected.
    Often no Ethics Order is issued on a PTS. They disconnect at once when the Suppressive is named. THE RIGHT SUPPRESSIVE
    Always find the right Suppressive or all the Suppressives in examining and declaring a PTS.
    If you name the wrong one or err in that it’s a group not a person the PTS won’t disconnect.
    If you name the real person or group the PTS gets a meter blow down, sighs with relief and disconnects. 413
    Suppressive Persons or groups deal in such generalities, the PTS is often quite blind to the real one. Be very careful here. It’s the only way to goof handling a PTS.
    Never be afraid to issue orders that label somebody an SP if you have the real evidence.
    If you label them you get them back in some day. If you don’t label them, they are far more likely to vanish forever.
    Labelling them is a kind action.
    If you are frightened of civil suits because of an Ethics Order, just remember to issue them only when you have the evidence.
    I .
    Ethics can handle any Civil Action amongst Scientologists.
    Two data are the Biggest Senior data in Law:
    LAWS CAN ONLY BE ENFORCED, IF THEY SPRING FROM THE CUSTOMS AND HABITS OF A PEOPLE. Good Scientologists swarm in under Ethics. Bad ones howl. The good ones comprise 80%. The bad ones comprise
    20%. The majority rules. We have Ethics.
    Civil Actions are what the group demands. By Civil is meant disputes-marriages, separations, settlements, child care, money owed, that sort of thing.
    We must handle these. Fairly. It’s done by an Ethics Order Convening an Ethics Hearing naming the parties and purpose. It summons them to a person appointed to Hear it, a time and a place. The hearer decides what’s to be done between or amongst them.
    But this firm policy exists:
    There is no “get processed” finding in a Civil Ethics Hearing. Or an “until processed.” The decision is made there and then on its own merits and no dependency on tech.
    All Civil matters in writing an Ethics Order are headed CIVIL HEARING.
    This removes the idea the disputants are in trouble with Ethics. They aren’t. They’re in trouble with each other. Say so. And what kind of trouble and how much and who is suing who.
    Write a nice informative Ethics Order. Don’t leave anyone in mystery. Mysteries cause trouble and the purpose of Ethics is PEACE IN WHICH WE CAN GET IN TECHNOLOGY.
    LRH:mh.cden Copyright 0 1965 by L. Ron Hubbard ALL RIGHTS RESERVED 414

    • Jim Logan

      I think that with the point LRH made in the lecture from 58, the Group Engram Process you’ve referenced here (thanks for that by the way) and the additional ref here on Ethics Orders, it seems to me that the handling of “group engrams” evolved to a handling of the individuals with specific processing and with that the group would sort out.

      Fritz has pointed up something applicable too, that L10 incorporated that question and the fact LRH was researching and putting together the Ls at that time. Later on he did the Super Power stuff too, including a fantastic Ethics Repair List to cover the engrams that are experienced in the administration of justice in the 3D.

      I think that the reality of handling these things is that it takes auditing the individuals, and we’ve now got all sorts of stuff that can do that and address the issues and BPC.

      One thing I’d like to ask you Robin, since you’re the only person I’ve seen comment on it, do you recall what the “De-Oppression” thing was? I did some of this in the early 80s, at Flag, and it was really well received. However, it was curtailed abruptly and I never heard of it again. Perhaps it was taken into the Super Power stuff, as LRH was working that tech at that time too, with the WOOC eval (the “eyes only” version) playing a major role in sorting out staffs, the SO etc.

      • Jim,

        Much of DeOp tech wasn’t confidential. It included such things as incorporating full Post Purpose Clearing and Product Clearing as part of hatting.

        Some of the tech is covered in the following HCOB:

        HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
        HCOB 4 Aug. 71R POST PURPOSE CLEARING Rev. 26.11.74
        Recently some new technology, known as Deoppression, was developed for and is being used on orgs. (Deop is part of mission tech and is the subject of Flag Orders.)
        There is a piece of good technology that has fallen out of use: It is Post Purpose Clearing. It is quite successful in raising the general tone level and production of orgs. All by itself it produces an increase in production.
        It should be undertaken, for sure, after a Deoppression of an org is done. And, factually, it should be done in any case.
        The tech of it is contained in the reference HCOB. But to that HCOB could be added additional steps.
        PPC 12A.
        PPC 12B. PPC 12C. PPC 12D. PPC 12E.
        One asks, “What is your intention toward your post?” One takes this to F/N.
        One asks, “What is your post product?” One takes this to F/N.
        is done, “What is your intention in getting out that product?” To F/N.
        “What volume of product do you intend to get out?” To F/N.
        “What degree of quality do you intend your products to have?” To F/N.
        PPC 13 and PPC 14 are as given in the reference HCOB.
        There is an added note to Post Purpose Clearing. It probably accidentally got swept aside when some Quals abused What, How and Why in questions and got org staff snarled up because these were listing questions. Qual was arbitrarily forbidden to use such listing questions and this may have influenced this action of Post Purpose Clearing, so necessary to orgs, and the tech got lost. The result has been, in some cases, confused and unproductive staffs.
        Also, some seniors, not knowing how their own departments or divisions were supposed to run, tended to knock off hats and put people on posts doing the wrong things, resulting in a “Hey, you” org board.
        The remedies for these two errors are quite plain. 375
        1. When any step results in a BD F/N result, indicate it to the pc. In case of any bog, treat the two-way comm pc statements as though they were L&N items. Any bog can be repaired with an L4B.
        2. In the case of executives and seniors, clear them on the various posts over which they have command, using the OEC volumes for reference. This will tend to make them hold the form of the org.
        Various outnesses will be found by any Qual attempting to do this on an org. They may discover, for instance, that the org has no hats: But this should not stop them, although it should be remedied fast as well.
        By adding the intention step, Qual is certainly going to collide with a few rock slams regarding products or the org. But this is all to the good: we don’t want rock slammers messing up products or the org. Any plants or people of evil intentions will show up, though PPC is not intended as an ethics cycle.
        PPC is an organizing step and should not be used to stop production. But, at the same time, it should not be forbidden because it is an organizing step.
        The speed with which a PPC can be done is not forever. At PPC 2, if the person is set up to have one as in this step, the PPC should, for most posts, simply sail along like a June breeze. With a VGIs at the end.
        It is quite true that the pay of the org depends upon the individual quality and volume productivity of each individual org member. A PPC well done throughout an org inevitably should raise, by making a better org, org income and pay.
        Remember that orgs which have had the highest stats were those orgs which ran closest to OEC policy. This is an historical fact, borne out time after time. So in all Post Purpose Clearing, your main reference is green-on-white, the policy letters, and these should be handy and referred to in any case where the duties of the staff member are unclear.
        It will also come about that you are handling someone who holds two or three posts. In that case, clear all of them but add a step PPC 12F, “Is there any conflict with your other hats and posts?” If it reads, “What are the conflicts?” and “How are you going to resolve that?”
        All cautions and directions in the reference HCOB apply in doing any Post Purpose Clearing.
        L. RON HUBBARD Founder

        Part of my job in my short career as an SSO was to ensure that these actions were done before a staff member would be considered “Fully Hatted”.

        What was considered “Mission Tech” was Roll Back which I believe was originally issued as an FO (black on white) if I remember correctly.

        Another one was having staff do admin TRs, order vs disorder, which was later incorporated into the SRD and there was a lot of M9 w/cing being done at which point I think Ron was developing what would later become KTL/LOC which in Clay Table Processes which was directly based on WOOC.

        And I think though I’m not sure included the Running Program.

        Personally I don’t think it was fully implemented because David Mayo got on the line as the Snr C/S and cross ordered its implementation with the HRD pilot (originally it was supposed to be run on public but somehow he managed to get most of the staff on the rundown plus other various rundown actions that were incorporated into various “repairs”. Back then it was hard to find a staff member to do PPC or PCLF (that’s Product Clearing Long Form) on because they always were interminably in the middle of some “auditing action”) and other actions that directly cut across even the usual Qual actions like metered w/cing or why finding etc.

        Another thing was again if I remember correctly many of these actions were supposed to be applied to the GO who were pretty much demoralized after the indictments and the court case, etc. Especially RB which was supposed to locate any plants but it seems that current management decided the cure the patient of that “headache” by cutting off the head 😉

        Anyway Deop tech is probably that tech that current management or the so called “finder of lost tech” probably isn’t going to find anytime soon because it would make staff members more causative on their post and would probably locate the actual suppressives who are oppressing them.

        • To add to what I wrote earlier much of what is called “DeOp” from the perspective of Qual was mainly getting hatting in. As I remember a lot of various Hat Check Sheets for various posts were issued as SOEDs which included full product and post purpose clearing per the above HCOB.

          As I wrote Roll Back came out around the same time and some of us were checked out on it but now I think about it I’m not sure if it was part of what was considered “DeOp” or not. In the FOs there is really no mention of “DeOP” but the fact is that getting Hatting done was definitely cross ordered by the Snr C/S office.

          I do know that RB was used a lot on the GO which is the area that the Ol’man suspected had been infiltrated due to its past performance or lack thereof in defending the Organization.

          Personally I think that Ron’s intention was to salvage the GO and get it back to applying policy.

          Contrary to a lot of the agitprop and black propaganda many GO terminals were highly trained. In fact no one could be permanently posted to B1 unless they had done the HDSEC. In the meantime as a holding action Mary Sue had written the Elementary Evaluators Course.

          Also orders came down to put the people in SoCo through a PR check sheet three times.

          Anyway around the period of DeOp there was generally a lot of attention being put on hatting and getting staff through their hatting cycle and onto either the OEC or Auditor Training.

          There was also a lot of attention being put on making sure that staff took study time. Even using ethics if needed to make staff members attend study.

          • Jim Logan

            OK, thanks for the data you had on the De-Op thing. I recall getting interviewed, one on one, at Flag by somebody who wanted to get my real answers to some good questions. It was on the line of sincere invest into the conditions for staff, what they were having trouble with in life, on post, and how to sort these things out. One of the other things that came of that time period was the Violation of Staff Covenant issue that credited a Sea Org Member’s work and exchange with the group. (This was subsequently cancelled by DM, knowing full well LRH authorized the issue, as one of the Watch Messengers that was there, and witnessed it, as well as the fact the whole comm cycle was recorded.)

            The flavor I got on De-Op was that there was a care and concern over the well-being of staff being stepped up. It came and went when the “new S.O.” took over (DM and cohorts).

            Lucky for all us thetans, it’s a loooooooooong game and with what we have now as KRC, we win.

            • Jim,

              Yes there were other things like moving staff to better quarters (paid for by SORs not, not by the public) and Chinese Schooling the Org Board an action that had fallen out and insuring that an SSO was posted in Qual and that the AG or the FP committee or anyone else didn’t touch the salary sum and that bonuses were paid and that there were *awards* as well as penances.

              Don’t know if these were part of DeOp but those actions did increase the tone level of the Org I was in.

              Well DM and his team of Org wreckers have been pretty good at pretty much reversing any ground gained by the Reform Codes so what’s another policy that would have acknowledged the service of staff, getting in their exchange and back on the Bridge to his or their list of high crimes.

              Actually Jim as far as I know the policy was never canceled. It like many others was just omitted from the more current set of OEC volumes because it wasn’t written by Ron (even though Ron signed off on it and it was accepted by the Board of Directors of CSC as policy in other words went through all the required steps per Policy;Source of) yet you go through the OEC Vols and there are others that weren’t written by Ron in there. As far as I can see. It’s just selective use of Scientology to suppress in many cases.

              My take.

              • BTW the way Jimbo,

                I know that the Violation of Staff Covenant was never legally canceled just like 1 Mar 66 wasn’t because I innocently asked about its absence in the current OECs with someone in Senior HCO and he said something like “well it’s not there is it?” as if differences were similar like for example omitting it is the same as actually canceling or modifying it.

                If you look at the current OECs you just find the HCOPL Freeloaders which was the original written at a time when people would sign up for training and then transfer to an upper org or leave staff and go into Franchise.

                I’ve never been able to find a policy that specifically cancels Violation of Staff Covenant.

                Same with 1 March 66. No matter how many times the little cretin triumphantly crows (which is a High Crime BTW per the HCOPL Seniority of Orders) that he “abolished the GO”. It still exists in right there in policy which was never legally canceled or modified by policy according to Policy; Source of.

                I actually question whether the PL Sec Checks Abolished was legally canceled by Confessional Tech Policies which is actually a compilation.

                Anyway Dave and other SPs get away with this crap because most staff in many cases have difficulty in evaluating importances. Not to mention the confusions generated by off-line and off-source issues like what are ironically correctly named SP Directives, SOEDs and the ever popular RTC Bulletins that read like they were written by a complete moron.

                There isn’t one I haven’t read that I haven’t rolled my eyes sky ward and haven’t asked Ron or any other big thetan in charge to deliver us from stupidity or evil or whatever.


                In my opinion the Orgs these days are run in a perpetual not-is. The source doesn’t matter as much as the fact that it is occurring.

    • fritz

      Yes Robin, I don’t fully follow what you say, i don’t have the hatting nor the experience.
      I see you quote RJ39 with the “rear mirror”. If I do remember it also says that NewOTVIII handle de amnesia on the whole track. I did the level and asked to many other OTVIII, it doesn’t handle “amnesia on the whole track” nor there is any “truth reveal”. This level is a patchwork, an attempt to deliver something for people who gave their money “to put the ship there”. It could have been delivered at Flag, no need to sail into the Caribean to deliver such an almost no product.
      It’s a scam. So my conclusion is as Hubbard was honest (I really think so), it means that he is not the author of RJ39. But the actor seems better than in RJ38.

      • Fritz,

        Personally I don’t think it was Ron’s fault that management skimped when they released the level. To me it’s like saying they were conned because they didn’t receive the full benefits of the lower grades because they were quickied when the fact is *that the grades weren’t fully done to EP*.

        Like he says in the following RED:

        L. Ron Hubbard EXECUTIVE DIRECTIVE

        LRH ED 106 INT 3 June 1970

        To: ECs
        All Staffs

        Subject: WHAT WAS WRONG

        Reference: LRH ED 104 INT Auditing Sales and Delivery Pgm No. 1

        If you went into a sports shop to buy an outboard motor and
        they charged you $500 and handed you its handle you would
        be upset. You wouldn’t go to that shop any more.

        When a person comes in and buys auditing and is then not
        delivered its end result, he is upset.

        An org cannot run and be solvent if it has no product.

        The abilities listed for Scientology grades CAN be
        attained. In 1964 they took dozens of hours to reach. In
        1969 an org spent only a few minutes on a grade with no
        attest by the pc. The whole line and whole delivery of
        product had gone out completely.

        Result – no income, unhappy public.

        Several things brought this about. It wasn’t anyone’s
        fault (see LRH ED 104 INT).

        But the point is it happened. The subject got thrown

        NOW NOW NOW.

        I can see some blank stares. “But it only takes 2 minutes
        to run Grade O.” “If we can audit so fast we don’t need
        many auditors.” “We haven’t got auditors.” “But all those
        other processes are OLD.” “We were taught…” “But you
        said…” “But at SH they said they weren’t used anymore and
        ..” “We’re so busy with all this paper we haven’t got time
        to see about delivery and …”

        Look. You’re not long for this world if you keep getting
        paid for an outboard motor and deliver only its handle!

        We have got to get Scientology back in and being fully used
        and being taught.

        There are DOZENS OF PROCESSES REQUIRED to put in
        Scientology LOWER GRADES. Many are listed on the Class
        Chart of 1 January 68 and on the Chart of 1 Sept 69. Under
        “Subject Audited” on that Chart it only gives the TYPE.
        Under “Processes Taught” it gives the actual list.

        Please, please, please, please cease giving 20 minutes of
        auditing for all lower grades. It takes dozens of hours.
        When you sell auditing sell it in hourly lots. Don’t sell
        “Comm Release”, don’t make it part of a multiple declare.
        Run all the processes on the pc. For each grade. Run them
        ALL. Run the triple process last. It will take hours and
        hours and hours.

        Before he even gets to Grade O the pc should have all his
        Dianetics any singles, all triples. And that’s fifty hours
        if any thorough job is done. And he has to say to the
        Examiner he’s attained the level in its words. Then he
        gets TRs, Drills, Comm Cycles. And then to begin Grade
        Zero he gets Valence Processes, half a dozen Comm Processes
        and finally the triple Grade Zero 0-0, O-A, O-B.

        And he has to say to the Examiner that he can comm to
        anyone about anything and anyone can comm to him about
        anything and he would permit others to talk to others about
        anything. And if he can’t declare that to the Examiner he
        goes back to Tech to get the remaining disability handled
        by other unused comm processes.

        Now does that look like “26 minutes to Grade O”?

        That’s what I mean about delivering only the handle of the
        outboard motor!


        The subject works. But it won’t work if it isn’t applied!

        I can accept that this action will take a while to get in fully.

        I expect we’ll still have Examiners who accept Multiple
        Declare of all Grades, HCO Area Sees who sign releases with
        no Examiner report to hand or Examiners who ask “You made
        Grade Zero?” PC: “What’s that?” Examiner: “OK you
        pass.” And we’ll still have C/Ses saying “Give him all his
        triples.” And auditors who say “I got all his grades in in
        2 minutes.” Even months from now there will be areas that
        never heard of this. And we’ll still be repairing pcs for
        the next two years.

        But YOU should do all you can NOW to get this line in AT
        ONCE before you go down for the third time.

        The matter is URGENT. And it ‘s more IMPORTANT than any
        other single action.

        Regardless of how it went out, you’ve got to get the
        subject BACK IN fully used and delivered.

        I will do my part. You know that. So you do yours.

        I’ll get out a temporary line up of all the processes. If
        you haven’t got it, look them up fast. The data is all
        there in your org covered with dust probably. People have
        said “it’s old,” “it’s background,” “we don’t use that
        now.” But haul it out. Teach it, use it.


        The only way Dianetics can be sold short is not to deliver
        all of it to final result of no somatics, aches or pains
        whatever. I heard of “18 hours for Dianetic triples”
        recently which is pure hogwash. So don’t let that get
        going down the drain. 50 hours of Dianetics is not very
        much. And it should ALL be triples. Singles are only for
        assists and student practice.

        And I don’t know how anybody would even run Dianetics
        without first repairing somebody’s life by two way comm and
        flying ruds.

        Don’t confuse FAST flow with quick auditing.

        The public buys auditing volume in Lower Grades. It does
        not buy results as it doesn’t understand them.


        A quick result is too often an impermanent result.

        By giving “quick results” you make auditing so cheap no one
        cares to be trained. And org high income comes from
        students, not pcs.

        “Quick result” has been used to cover up superficial
        no results auditing. Fast flow has been used to fail to

        Pcs audited in the last two years or more HAVE NOT ATTAINED

        Some have. But I am finding people who are Grade IV who
        have lots of problems and hidden standards. I am having to
        C/S in lower grades on pcs from lower orgs whose “grades
        were attained”

        If you let Grade I Problems remain unattained, you will get
        the same percent of SPs in Scn ranks as in the public.
        Why? Because a person with a problem makes NO CASE GAIN.

        When grades went out and weren’t given ETHICS came in!

        For the sake of haste, ease and the buck, the baby got
        thrown out with the bathwater.

        I want to see every Class IV Org and SH delivering and
        teaching all the processes of the grade.

        I want you to deliver what’s promised. Full grade ability.

        When the public pays for an outboard motor, deliver an
        outboard motor.

        We have a lot of work ahead to repair all this.

        One bright side of it, we found the subject again. And
        another, you have an ocean of lower grade pcs “Grade IV”
        whose abilities must now be put in. And you have Dianetics
        to carry you while you get the subject back.

        We never got this Class Chart fully in and will proceed to
        do so now now now.

        Note: The Classification Gradation and Awareness Char of
        Levels and Certificates of 1 September 1969 issued with
        Auditor No. 50 or March 1970 are correct if the “Processes
        Taught” column is also used as “Processes Audited on Pc”

        L. RON HUBBARD


        To repeat what Ron says in the above RED:

        “Look. You’re not long for this world if you keep getting
        paid for an outboard motor and deliver only its handle!”

        Which in my opinion is exactly what happened in regard to OT VIII which as you remember was delivered some time after Ron departed.

        First the level didn’t contain all the data regarding OT VIII. Much of it from the late ’60’s and early ’70’s. This from a source of mine who worked on the original OT delivery line up.

        Secondly many who did the level (again from that same source) hadn’t done or fully completed the original OT levels. These by the way with the exception of the original OT IV RD are actual OT Levels. In fact I discuss these levels on my blog on Remote Viewing:


        Actually this was the route that was originally covered in RJ 30 which I’m sure you can find a copy of. If not I’ll be happy to post it.

        Also the HCOB HCO BULLETIN OF 3 FEBRUARY 1972
        Registrars IMPORTANT BPI
        Advance Mag

        Which again I’d be happy to post if you don’t happen to have a copy.

        As far as I’m concerned calling levels “new” can be just another way of committing a Tech Degrade. Yes true Ron calls Solo NOTs “New OT VII” in RJ 39 because it was now a preliminary step to “New OT VIII” but nowhere does he say that “New OT VII” replaces or cancels “old” or more correctly the original OT VII which dealt with intention.

        Such assumptions gave us *Quickie Grades* when Ron released the major processes of each Grade in a ’68 HCOB. Yet it seems that the Church loves to repeat history these days. Take for example CMOI’s “bright idea” to drop out what were called the Reform Codes covered in RJ 68 and set up basically the same circumstances that cause much of the upset with the Organization in the mid-60’s such as disconnection, harsh ethics and unwarranted and unnecessary sec checks to name a few.

        The fact is that you can’t even find a copy of RJ 68 in any Org these days. Yet there is some very useful data on that RJ. Like for instance the difference between the Philosophy of Scientology and Standard Technology.

        Again I’d be happy to send a copy here do Lana if she doesn’t have one.

        Anyway back to OT VIII or more accurately what they are calling “OT VIII”. At some point if we succeed in reforming the Church or start a new one we’ll have to go through the CST’s vaults and sort this all out. Until then there are very few Scientologists who are at that level. Many just haven’t been audited. Take the example of a Field PC of mine back in the days when I still auditing under the thumb of that protection racket known euphemistically as IHELP which could be more accurately called “Help turned to Betrayal” or even more accurately “Soul Sucking Vampires” and their Orwellian “Auditor Activation Chief” (son of the person who brought about the destruction of the GO. Seems it runs in the family… but anyway…) who illegally canceled all the certs of any auditor who hadn’t “availed” themselves of the “Golden Age of Tech” but I digress….

        Anyway I audited this PC who cognited that he should get trained and so being a good Field Auditor I sent him and his folders to CCI. The guy gets back to me almost a decade later and wasn’t any further up the Grade Chart on either side then he was when I sent him there.

        Almost ten years at CCI and he hadn’t completed a single training or processing action while there!

        I mean they can’t even make a homo novis or a Dianetic Clear which is another sore point with me but I’ll move on.

        You expect them to make a real OT?

        ‘Nuff said.

        I suggest reading those issues Fritz instead of assuming that those RJ’s are forged or that the Ol’man was lying.

  34. Steve Poore

    Really interesting discussion here. I find a lot of agreement with all of your viewpoints, but of course I have my own as well.
    Before I officially resigned from the Church (and did it loudly) a couple of years back after being in for 34 years, I opened up the Internet and did about 300 hours of research. Of course I saw Miscavige as The SP he is in about the first 10 minutes. Does he have other SPs inside who support him? Of course! And mostly PTSes. I was one of them, as an active, full time professional Scientologist and Church Member.
    Since I came out I’ve been saying to friends and posting many comments on the various blogs that I believe Miscavige is somehow Back Stopped (Propped Up) by the SP Globalist who run this Prison Planet – the same assholes that placed and keep the likes of Obama in power. Can one man rise to power in a group like the CoS? – Where there are Too Many in the group who are not trained on The Tech? Who are not really Scientologist? Who have a Low Confront of Evil? I believe so. Hitler comes to mind and there are so many other examples in history. However, if one considers all the outpoints, including The IRS “the war is over” and all the dozens if not hundreds of lawsuits and allegations of atrocities leveled against Miscavige, how can he continue on his merry way of suppressing Scientology and Scientologist? Why should the Law Enforcement Arms of Government Agencies (controlled by the globalist) around the world be concerned in the least about attacking The CoS under Miscavige? It’s no threat to their power and control to suppress their populations. No, they have the Church right where they want it. Suppressed and Ineffective. I don’t believe Miscavige is Cause in this conspiracy, but simply an unwitting pawn however protected. Sure, I’d like to see him de-throned. But who next in line would be placed in power? propped up?
    Can I prove any of this? No! But in the scheme of things, does it really matter? The situation is obvious! As I’ve stated many times, if someone wants to deliver in volume and build a group that can deliver in volume, they should be prepared for attack from The Church – OSA. But how effective have these attacks been in recent years? E.G., The Tech is Public Domain. Yes, The Operations of Miscavige does make the environment to disseminate more challenging with the bad PR and all, but really, is it a stop? I deal with rare public every day and as someone noted on this thread, the general public doesn’t follow these hate blogs. The Handle Step with direct contact with rare public is a piece of cake these days, being armed with the actual truth of the bad PR.
    No, I believe that LRH gave us the answer to the future of Scientology’s expansion in Tech and Policy, including Flourish and Prosper. Deliver! Handle attacks, yes, but put your main attention on Flourishing and Prospering.
    If for example, if there was a group in LA (largest concentration of Scientologist on the planet) Org Boarded up, delivering in a viable Standard Tech volume, with a strong Dept 20, there would be an alternative for those who want their Bridge, who are inactive with the church and in limbo. I believe the place would fill up.
    Heck, the attacks and fight that would ensue might just be what’s needed to finish off Miscavige and his gang of thieves.

    • MS2

      sorry for the delay in passing your comments through Steve. Nothing personal. Moderator was a little distracted on other matters :)

    • Hi Steve,


      Yeah I know you meant raw instead of rare. Though sometimes we deal with rare public as well 😉

      The public in general is unaware of Scientology which just shows you how capable the Organization is in disseminating the subject.

      I remember back the day when you could walk into any book store or library and find a Scientology book as opposed to a book about Scientology. BTW regarding the the latter read ’em all and they pretty much follow Hitler’s precept in Mein Kampt that if one repeats the same lie enough times with out variation that somehow it will magically turn into the “truth”.

      For instance various press and media are saying that Ron founded the Church of Scientology in Camden New Jersey. Yeah there were various papers filed incorporating the Church. Along with the Church of Spiritual Engineering and American Science but the fact is which can be easily verified is the first Church of Scientology that was actually founded by definition was in the state of California by J Burton Farber.

      Why do they do this? Probably to make the Ol’man seem like a liar when he truthfully says he didn’t found the Organization.

      Like this thing about the various OT Levels above VIII. Only in this case it is the Organization that is making Ron seem untruthful.

      I mean anyone with half a functional brain left or right side doesn’t matter and who has had some Tech Training can see that Ron though he gave a blue print of the lower levels by saying what kind of processes should be on it didn’t spend the time going back over the PABs and earlier HCOBs to find all the Comm Pr that would go on Level 0 but left that to C/Ses and eventually the BCSC to line ’em up.

      For instance the name of several levels above VIII are given in the FES summary. All one would have to do would be to take say “Orders of Magnitude” for example and go through the earlier lectures and PABs and find the type of Processes that that would produce that EP.

      “Character” well that’s a snap. In COHA there is a process known as “Wearing Heads” as part of Route 1.

      Fact is many of the original OT levels the ones that impressed CIA’s DS&T and OTS enough that they ended up tripping the light fantastic and funding the Remote Viewing program under the covert name of “Biofield Research” came from many of the processes in COHA and various lectures given in the early ’50’s.

      As far as I’m concerned people like Marty, Mike and Mayo either don’t know shit from shinola or are part of the operation when they say the raided the ranch and couldn’t find the OT levels above OT VIII. To me it’s like them going to the beach and say they couldn’t find sand.

      Anyway I agree with you when you say that there is some kind of operation in play by Smersh or the Global Enslavers or whoever though I doubt if it is anyone from Marcab externally to discredit and invalidate the subject for obvious economic reasons such as the AMA,APA and their friends in big Pharma stand to lose billions in revenue but also from the “Intelligence Community” who are interested in using mental technology secretly as part of their “non-lethal weapons” agenda or as we call it Black Dianetics.

      That in the fact that internally we have allowed Standard Tech and Policy to fall out of use. At some point it became “expedient” to give someone an “SRA” instead of sending them to Qual to get a Disagreement Check or “hat” staff on the virtues of blind obedience according to someone who happened to share the Ol’man’s last name or to use old school threats and punishment and good ol’ Brainwashing techniques devised by the Soviets and Communist Chinese with advice from CIA’s torture manual on how to carry out “enhanced interrogation” and get the person to believe that it is him or her causing all this pain and that if one obeys or confesses that it’ll stop.

      How else do explain a bunch of former execs locking them selves away in what is called the hole and actually defending their tormentors?

      Think of someone like Guillame or someone like that in the role of Patti Hearst and the Int Base as the Symbionese Liberation Army minus the machine gun.

      I could go on about how the Golden Age of Tech has totally f_ked up technical delivery and has basically institutionalized *squirreling*. At least honest squirrels don’t enforce their squirreling with the threat of ethics. They just squirrel. Whereas the Church has made it into an operating basis of some kind.

      As you say Steve. I’m sure the Government looks benignly on all of this and they can save their no knock raids for other members of the populace more deserving. Yes as Miscavige said in ’93 the war is over and the Church of Scientology lost.

    • fritz

      Never said the old man was lying quite the opposite.

      • Fritz,

        It seems that what you are saying that unless the RJs mentioned were forgeries than the Ol’man is lying or something to that effect.

        Personally I don’t see why anyone would want to forge these RJs and if you read my posts and comments I can conspiracy theorize with the best of them.

        Maybe in the case of RJ 38 to disinform the public but I don’t see that since because many of the conditions discussed in there were actually occurring. The fact is that new management seemed to being a good job and the stats of Scientology internationally were indeed up.

        Personally as I’ve written before that this probably had more to do with the drop in the price of services to a more affordable level. The introduction the VSD stat. Service completion awards and Dianetics being promoted again as per Ridge on the Bridge. Not anything management was doing. In fact I thought that in many cases they took false credit for international stats.

        Even back then from my viewpoint as a Staff Member. Management in my opinion was getting to be a Royal pain in the ass. Demanding that all Orgs many of them barely able to make Org Program No. 1 requirement move to a nine division org board basically diluting whatever small Div VIs activities were occurring.

        Then of course there was the Mission Massacre which I’m pretty sure Ron never had anything to do with and the illegal removal of the Controller and CSG which Ron didn’t find out according to the Man Behind Scientology till 6 months later.

        But maybe he just looked at the stats and the information he was getting from his multiple VP system which he had no reason to suspect at the time was being distorted and decided not to intervene.

        Who knows?

        RJ 39. Maybe the actual level that he wrote up did indeed address amnesia on the whole track and would reveal the truth and that management for whatever reason decided to deliver a “shoddy substitute”. Not that it hasn’t happened before. I remember when Xdn was supposed to be exported from Flag and it never fully was.

        I believe Ron talks about sending a message like “I love you.” and ended up with something like “I loathe you” at the end of an aberated comm line in Dn 55.

        In other words there are many other things that would explain the failure to deliver what was promised the most simplest being just failing to deliver what is promised which seems to be a common occurrence these days inside the Organization other than that these RJs were somehow forged.

  35. Steve Poore

    “raw public”

    • fritz

      Yes, what you say is possible.
      But Not’s for exemple, in 1978, was delivered as the ink on the bulletin was not even dry. And this original Not’s (not altered yet by COB’s order) was working beautifully.
      Concerning OT 8, you says with some other people that some pieces are missing. I used th have the same idea. But thinking twice, I would tend to now believe that OT 8 was a patchwork of data, full of contrary ideas, which didn’t lead anywhere nor explained anything, put togather by some technical terminal to keep customer busy.
      If there was any missing piece someone would have found it.
      Also,I don’t see what you have against Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and David Mayo. What they have in commun is that they revolt against Miscavige and were leaders. Mayo retired, maybe with some money paid by the church.
      Marty seems to be fed up of speaking about scientology, and he did a lot and has the right to hollidays. And Mike is continuing to expose “COB”.

      • Fritz,

        If you were on tech lines when Mayo was Snr C/S you’d know he was a squirrel. I myself wrote various Staff Member Reports and Orders Queries on Mayo brand of “tech”.

        Marty and Mike as far as I’m concerned are trying to justify their own overts by blaming it all on Miscavige. Have you read the Man Behind Scientology?


        These guys were basically the Men behind the Man Behind Scientology. In fact his biggest cheer leaders until they either had an attack of conscious or struck a better deal with the media by becoming “whistle blowers”.

        Exposing his crimes?

        Gimme a frickin’ break.

        Anyone who is familiar with the Ethics & Justice Codes, Code of a Scientologist, the Auditors Code and the policy Suppressive Acts Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists can see what these “crimes” and high crimes are. They don’t need Marty and Mike to point them out and in many cases distort them beyond recognition.

        Also I’ve tangled with both Marty and Mike who censor any explanation that goes beyond what I call the “lone Miscavige theory”. Despite what various Policies, Directives, recorded lectures and documents recovered by FOIA say about the scene. Marty has gone so far to say that any mention of what Ron may say about the scene or what can be confirmed by actual dox must be an “OSA plot” while Mikie merely dismisses it as “conspiracy theory” and both them and their adoring followers are fixated on Miscavige.

        (Actually there is an action that is part of the Introspection Rundown that handles this fixation on terminals but anyway…)

        Also Marty and Mike claim they raided the Ranch in an “Entebbe” like raid when they removed Broeker from the post of “Loyal Officer” and said they could find no evidence of any OT Levels above VIII.

        How would either of them know this? As neither of them neither had the level of training in Scientology or processing required to make that determination.

        Also since these notes were written in the early ’70’s as Ron says in Current State of Materials and in the Xdn Lectures. Why would they be at the Ranch? They would most likely be in a vault in Petrolia, Trementina or Twin Peaks not at the Ranch.

        As I wrote before. Who you gonna believe? Two people who are caught red handed lying to the press about Miscavige’s “anger ‘management'” issues or Ron. As I said you can go with the dynamic duo or dupes if you like. I myself believe Ron more than what I consider the lying triad of Marty, Mike and Mayo.

        Besides telling people there are no OT Levels above OT VIII as far as I’m concerned is *suppressive*. Even if no notes on these levels exist which I doubt because mention of these notes and what areas they address already exist in Policies and HCOBs at lower levels. Not to mention the fact that there are many OT processes covered in the earlier lectures and PABs that could be used in levels above VIII.

        Have you ever taken the “Grand Tour”, “Wearing Heads”, “Energy Production” and other such processes covered in Route 1?

        Not to mention many of the OT actions covered in the PDC, History of Man, 8-8008, 8-80. Take for example Creative Processing. A process that in many cases wasn’t found to work at lower levels yet would probably work quite well on an OT.

        Also there are actions mentioned on the Briefing Course of addressing actual GPMs as opposed to Implanted GPMs. It’s just a matter of figuring out where these actions would fit above OT VIII or which the outline at least to OT XV in the most recent FES Summary.That fact alone proves that Marty, Mike and Mayo don’t have a frickin’ clue and that these notes they claim as some kind of Holy Grail hidden some where in Creston when they could be right there in plain sight.

        So you ask why I do not have much respect for Marty and Mike. Well I hope I explained why.

  36. Personally I think this whole 3D Engram was one of those “seemed like a good idea at the time” ideas. Probably not as bad as say the Golden Age of Tech or the GO’s idea to pilfer the files from the IRS according to GO 1361or Icarus’ first and last flight.

    I’d say that the Theta/Mest theory would apply here.

    Anyway that said I found something in the original OEC Vol VI that may apply and offer some group participation and discussion under Franchise Promotion Musts:

    This is for the Franchise auditor who wants to have a consistent good flow of new business and consistent benefits of the quarterly Franchise Awards of Merit.
    Over the past four years I have enjoyed just that. This is one of the main factors why:
    ALL LECTURES ARE DONE OFF AN LRH HCOB OR HCO PIL. Even the first Introductory Lecture. When I walk to the front of the group that I’m going to talk to I take a bulletin and an abridged Scientology dictionary. The bulletin is read line-by-line, words are defined, two-way comm is invited (two-way comm with small groups under thirty people. Over that I skip the two-way comm). I then talk on the major points of the bulletin giving examples from life and push for the GIs-and am willing to quit 30 minutes early when the GIs are in.
    “Evidences of an aberrated area” is a very fine PC producer. “Anti-social individual” has been a big winner. “Supreme test of a thetan” produces people who want training. “Overts, what lies behind them” produces cogs, GIs and paying preclears.
    This approach keeps LRH as source. That is a big help to you. It’s just like auditing. LRH supplies the data. You apply it to the point of GIs and bail out.
    Auditing for a living is very lucrative, in terms of money made and loyal friends and personal satisfaction. Use the straight LRH data to disseminate with-then use the straight LRH data to audit all them new PCs with-and you have got it made.

    IMHO probably more constructive than say trying to run an engram that there seems to be a diverging of opinion as to the actual cause.

    Personally I think what happened is covered under the policies Third Dynamic De-Aberration and Group Sanity. True Miscavige and probably Smersh influenced the scene somewhat but aside from “ogres” Government or otherwise is the fact that as Ron says in KSW to paraphrase it has been generally a failure to practice the technology such as being able to spot plants or a rabid SP in our midst to holding the line on Standard Tech and Policy.

    This cognition came to me when Jim said that Miscavige “canceled” the HCOPL Staff Covenant Violation but the fact is that he never actually canceled it but instead was arbitrarily “canceled” because it was simply omitted from the newer OECs.

    According to Policy;Source of this is *not* how one cancels or modifies policy. In fact Ron says clearly in this PL:

    If it is not in an HCO Policy Letter it is not policy.
    HCO Policy Letters do not expire until cancelled or changed by later HCO Policy Letters.
    No officer or Scientology personnel may set aside policy even when requesting revision.

    For instance the policy on Freeloaders in the newer OECs does not specifically say that it cancels or modifies Violation of Staff Covenant even though it was modified in ’91.

    Such actions as assuming later PLs and HCOBs canceled earlier ones gave us such things as Quickie Grades and as far as I’m concerned is a *Tech Degrade*.

    Ron also says in HCOPL Seniority of Orders:

    HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
    No Aides Order or Flag Bureaux Data Letter or Executive Directive, Direc- tive or Base Order of any type or kind, written or verbal, may alter or cancel any policy letter or HCOB. These remain senior.
    HCO Policy Letters are senior in admin. HCO Bulletins are senior to all other orders in tech.
    Only Policy Letters may revise or cancel Policy Letters. Only HCOBs may revise or cancel HCOBs.
    No Aides Order or other directive or order may abolish a network or org or change the form of an org.
    HCO PLs and HCOBs require passing by LRH or the full authority of Inter- national Board members as well as the Authority and Verification Unit.
    Telexes which inform orgs or executives of modifications or cancellations of HCO PLs or HCOBs must quote the revision HCO PL or HCOB, and the revision must in fact exist and itself be issued and follow.
    Any practice by which junior issues such as directives abolish networks or make off-policy changes can only result in the destruction of networks, orgs and tech.
    This is therefore a HIGH CRIME policy letter and it is an offense both to follow or obey or issue any verbal or written order or directive which is contrary to or changes or “abolishes” anything set up in HCO Policy Letters or HCOBs, including the downgrade of “that’s out-of-date” or “that’s been cancelled” with- out showing the HCO PL or HCOB which revises or cancels.
    HCO PLs and HCOBs are proven by time and are the senior data on which we operate.
    L. RON HUBBARD Founder

    To emphasize the point Ron says:

    This is therefore a HIGH CRIME policy letter and *it is an offense both to follow or obey or issue* (emphasis mine) any verbal or written order or directive which is contrary to or changes or “abolishes” anything set up in HCO Policy Letters or HCOBs, including the downgrade of “that’s out-of-date” or “that’s been cancelled” with- out showing the HCO PL or HCOB which revises or cancels.
    HCO PLs and HCOBs are proven by time and are the senior data on which we operate.

    So in my opinion. It doesn’t matter whether it was Miscavige or the CIA who ordered it. It is still a High Crime “to follow or obey” such an order or directive such as an SPD for example that cancels or modifies policy.

    This would include “abolishing” the GO network and replacing it with the Frankenstein’s Monster known as “Office of Special” affairs. In fact such a “office” does not exist in policy (like the IAS for example but I digress) nor is mentioned in the new volumes except in the title section.

    Anyway in my opinion we’d get a lot more TA going over what policies and tech have been violated than going over a 3D Engram that some of us can not agree on the source of. Since policy is an agreement.


    • fritz

      To Robin.

      Well, I would say that without Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder exposing “COB”, I still would be on the church. And maybe you too.

      Marty provided a space where people could speak up. His input was huge.

      Maybe “COB” is not the only suppressive and he may have some deal with some business partners or officials on the wog world. But I don’t think they control him, he is controlling them with money.

      Miscavige is not coming from “Matrix” movie, more like from a Martin Scorcese’s film.

      Now Marty has gone beyond scientology. He just told his viewpoint on his blog. Some of his idea, for me, are very bright. People have the right to think and not only to follow Hubbard bluntly. But I disagree with people who are attacking Hubbard. He was honest on his research.

      Of course there is no OT levels published after 8. It’s not suppressive to say that, where are they?
      I also believe they don’t exist.

      Of course there might be some level of awareness above what is currently known.

      Now, you are welcome to research some OT levels from Creation of Human Ability, R2 12, 3D criss cross, GPM stuff. Just write it down and audit them. Have the courage to do what Bill Robertson did, he researched some OT levels from Not’s and OT3, and some people are very satisfied with it.

      I know you will tell that Robertson is a squirrel. And if you create a process from GPM business will you not be a squirrel too? The word “squirrel” was redefined by Miscavige in 1983 to label people delivering tech out of RTC umbrella.

      There is what is published by Hubbard and what is not. And in what is published, there are no OT levels above 8, simply.

      • Fritz,

        I had left the Org long before Marty and Mike put on their Dog and Pony show they were *not* a factor in my decision to leave the Organization except maybe indirectly when Marty was IG RTC and Mike headed OSA Int.

        Also if you want to believe that it is the marionette who is pulling the strings then you can believe that as well.

        I’ve read hundreds of declassified documents, GO Directives, policy letters and my *own* actual personal observations indicate otherwise. What is true for you is not necessarily true for me.

        Marty and Mike news junket had nothing to do with my decision to leave. The fact that those individuals who call themselves “management” were committing suppressive acts and were aligning themselves with suppressive groups like IRS, InterPol, DEA, the State Department which is just another way of saying CIA and people who had connections to these organizations including the NSA.

        Personally consider many Scientologist who believe that Miscavige is really running the show all on his won are naive. Like Mike who said he thought that Adnan Khashoggi was “nice guy” (no wonder they wanted him to head OSA) and that there was nothing wrong with someone Sky Dayton being in league with the devil AKA Carlyle Group through UBS or Brian Swann building optical splitters so that NSA can all our tap phone calls in violation of FISA or ATG having former Director of NSA Bill Odom on their board of directors or that Greta Van Susteren family was in like flynn with HUAC and the IC or that Craig Jensen’s software allows access to spookville.

        Marty and Mike as far as I’m concerned are just promoting Miscavige’s delusion that he is running the show and that he is the chosen one.

        Regarding the levels above VIII. As I wrote very few cases are at that level at that point. Also I noticed you’ve changed your story. I said they as Ron says are in note form. You are now saying they haven’t been delivered to the public now thus they don’t exist which is something we both know. Are you familiar with the term *Straw Man Argument*?

        • Oh by the way Marty claims he’s “gone beyond Scientology” yet he hasn’t managed to get passed his ego in my opinion. I’ve had PC’s who were into to the same “search” that Marty is currently involved in *before* they got into Scientology. Marty as far as I’m concerned is devolving and that he should find his Crashing Mis-U and you can tell him I said that.

  37. fritz

    I have no personnal contact with Marty, I can just say that his blog has been exposing Miscavige ‘s activity. And it was instrumental for many scientologist to understand that the church was into betrayal of Hubbard’s purpose. Whatever Marty was before that, or what he will become after, his blog was the biggest possible threat for Miscavige and it was freeing many people from the yoke of the chruch.

    Now, regarding the 1982 take over, that is sure that it is very blurry.
    You tell about some guys I don’t know at all. I never was in the Sea Org. So I have only what I can perceive and observe, and read. But I don’t know those peope, I can’t.

    Where I can agree with you is that it might be quite unlikely that Miscavige could do such project all by himself. But he was helped by plenty execs that he mostly got rid of after.
    But I don’t really think of a big conpiracy. Otherwise, you can read Sector 9, by Bill Robertson. This is conspiracy theory to it’s best!

    My take is that Miscavige by all possible means wanted to make sure the church don’t explose, Hubbard being out of order. So he started to stop, lie, get read of anyone who could percieve what he was doing. He has a talent for this. And he is quite an autoritarian personnality as described in “an essay on management”.

    You didn’t tell me what you think of this : http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_ssqpjt.htm
    It would actually perfectly fit into your conspiracy viewpoint.

    • Fritz,

      As far as I know there was never a Smash the Squirrels project though there was a Squirrel Busters project based on the LRHED Project Squirrel and mostly directed toward the ACC.

      Pretty much what you call conspiracy “theory” is actually fact which has been memorialized in various documents since released through the Freedom of Information Act. Also included in the books Hidden Story and Playing Dirty both by Omar Garrison.

      Personally I find the supposition and proposition that the Organization could be taken down by one individual. Especially one of the caliber or lack there of of Miscavige to be utterly ridiculous. Just as crazy as Cap’n Bill’s idea of some Marcabian influence which was the reason why he ,Alex Sibersky and Bill Franks formed what they called the “9th Galactic Patrol” which later became the Freezone NKA as the “Ron’s Org Network”.

      Now about this quote:

      “My take is that Miscavige by all possible means wanted to make sure the church don’t explose, Hubbard being out of order. So he started to stop, lie, get read of anyone who could percieve what he was doing. He has a talent for this. And he is quite an autoritarian personnality as described in “an essay on management”.”

      This in my opinion is nothing but a theory or supposition used by the proponents of the lone Miscavige Theory to explain what happened when the simple fact is that Ron was off organizational lines during this time.

      To me this is much like the proponents of the idea that Ron knew anything about GO 1361.

      You’ll also note that the Essay on Management refers to a group not an individual. As far as I’m the group itself had already become a repressive oligarchy on the order of a Military Junta before Miscavige falsely claimed false “Leadership”. In other words it was well on its way to becoming a virtual dictatorship. What happened to the Franchise Network proves this point.

      It also proves the fact that there was a Conspiracy involved and not just the action of a single individual.

  38. fritz

    Right but this all supposition. But we have two documents visibles. One is a letter from Miscavige ordering to fake LRH on a video or tape. Do you think the document is authentic ?
    The other is RJ 38, the tape which might be faked with an actor playing LRH, as ordered by Miscavige on the document. Examining both, what is your conclusion?
    Is the document supposed to be written by Miscavige false, or is the LRH’s tape, or both?
    Or they are both authentic. I think my question is clear.
    And that is all I was saying, no other speculation, why finding. I have here two documents, on must be false. I don’t jump to conclusion or why. Just this precise matter.

  39. MS2

    OK everyone. Let’s hold the phone on this conversation.

    I guess this was an opportunity to see if we could get information aired that would help to destimulate 3D engrams, but the result has been that we have all manner of stuff, not actually connected to the 3D incidents, plus all sorts of guesses that are off-mark, which make the scene even more confusing.

    I am going to pause the comments till after Christmas, when we can review the LRH references and work out what to do, and the best method to moderate.

    Thank you for all you have said — however I am not interested in MS2 adding further confusion or false data to an existing situation that is already off the rails.

    All comments are appreciated, and no one here is being targeted, blamed or personally referred to.

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